Pregnancy sickness is often brushed off as something women are simply expected to “get on with”.
But for thousands of women every year, pregnancy sickness isn’t mild nausea or “morning sickness”. It’s relentless, debilitating, traumatic — and in some cases, life-threatening.
In this episode of The Lifestyle Prescription with Pharmacy Planet, host Rena Dipti Annobil sits down with photographer and campaigner Clare Hughes to explore the reality of Hyperemesis Gravidarum (HG) — a severe form of pregnancy sickness that is still widely misunderstood, underdiagnosed, and dismissed.
Clare shares her personal story of suffering through HG, the emotional and physical toll it took on her life, and how her experience inspired her powerful photography project The Hidden Mothers, which brings together the lived experiences of women who have been forced into silence for far too long.
This conversation is essential for anyone who has experienced HG, knows someone going through it, or wants to understand the urgent need for better awareness and care in women’s health.
As Rena makes clear in the episode, HG isn’t something that can be fixed by ginger biscuits or “resting more”. It can completely take over someone’s life.
2. Why HG Is Not “Just Morning Sickness”
One of the strongest themes in this episode is the dangerous way HG is often minimised.
Clare describes how pregnancy sickness is portrayed in films and everyday conversation:
A woman wakes up, throws up once, and then gets on with her day.
HG is nothing like that.
Clare explains that with HG there is no relief — no break, no moment where you feel normal again. It’s like living with a constant stomach virus for weeks or months, without the usual “recovery” phase.
3. Clare Hughes’ HG Story: “I Didn’t Know What Was Happening to Me”
Clare had never even heard of HG until she experienced it herself.
She explains that she only discovered the term four months into her first pregnancy, after seeing “Hyperemesis Gravidarum” written on a prescription and Googling it.
By that stage, she had already been severely unwell for months.
Her story reflects what many women experience:
Severe symptoms
Delayed diagnosis
Dismissal from healthcare professionals
Feeling like they’re simply “bad at pregnancy”
4. The Reality of HG Symptoms: Nausea, Vomiting, Dehydration and Isolation
Clare describes her HG as extreme nausea rather than constant vomiting — but the impact was still devastating.
She couldn’t eat properly, struggled to drink water, and had to rely on very specific “safe” foods.
Even the smell of certain things can become unbearable for women with HG, and some experience aversions to light, sound, and everyday environments.
Rena also shares her own experiences of severe pregnancy sickness, including moments where she could barely function, and how even basic improvement (like only vomiting once in the morning) felt like a huge relief.
5. The Emotional Impact: Trauma, PTSD and Suicidal Thoughts
Perhaps the most difficult — and important — part of this episode is how openly Clare speaks about the mental health impact of HG.
She explains that HG is not just physically debilitating. It can also cause:
Severe anxiety
Depression
Post-traumatic stress (PTSD)
Suicidal thoughts
Feelings of guilt, shame, and failure
Clare says many women describe wanting to end their lives, despite desperately wanting their babies — because the illness becomes so relentless and unbearable.
She also highlights a devastating real-world example:
The UK’s first recorded HG-related death, where a mother took her own life and lost her baby.
This is why awareness matters.
HG is not just “a rough pregnancy”.
It can be fatal.
6. The Medication Gap: Why Women Are Still Left to Fight for Treatment
One of the most shocking moments in the transcript is when Clare describes having to tell her GP what medication to prescribe — because the doctor had never even heard of Hyperemesis Gravidarum.
Clare explains that guidelines have changed, and there are now recognised medications used in pregnancy for HG — but many women still struggle to access them.
She describes using:
Xonvea as a first-line medication (ideally taken early)
Ondansetron when symptoms were severe
In Clare’s case, Ondansetron helped her function and continue with pregnancy — and without it, she believes she may not have been able to continue.
This is a critical point:
The risk of untreated HG (dehydration, malnutrition, trauma, pregnancy loss) can outweigh the small risks associated with medication.
7. Why HG Is Still So Underdiagnosed
HG affects an estimated 30,000 women per year, but Clare believes the true number is likely much higher.
She shares a powerful example of a BBC presenter who attended her exhibition and described a pregnancy where she couldn’t work for four months and was severely unwell — but still didn’t realise it was HG.
This reflects a wider problem:
Many women assume this is simply “normal pregnancy sickness”.
They aren’t told it has a name.
And they aren’t told support exists.
8. The Hidden Mothers: How Clare Turned Trauma Into a National Project
Clare’s photography project The Hidden Mothers is one of the most powerful parts of this episode.
After her first pregnancy, Clare struggled with trauma and PTSD.
As a socially engaged photographer, she wanted to understand what she had been through — and to meet other women who had lived through the same experience.
She found inspiration in a Victorian photography practice known as “hidden mother photography”.
In the Victorian era, mothers were disguised as furniture so they could hold babies still for long-exposure photographs.
Clare explains that this became a metaphor for HG:
Women hidden away in dark rooms. Women’s suffering hidden behind the word “pregnancy”. Women’s stories dismissed and ignored.
9. The Shocking Stories Clare Heard from Other Women
Clare photographed 22 women, including herself, for the project.
She describes being overwhelmed by responses when she put out a call for participants — with women from all over the world offering to fly in just to tell their story.
Many stories included:
Women losing babies
Women terminating wanted pregnancies due to HG
Lack of family support
Severe trauma
Suicidal ideation
Clare explains that the most painful part is that women often suffer in silence — and then receive no aftercare once pregnancy ends.
10. What Ideal HG Care Should Look Like
When asked what ideal care should look like for women with HG, Clare is clear:
Healthcare professionals need training.
HG must be treated seriously at first contact — whether that’s a GP, midwife, or maternity unit.
Clare describes how she felt ignored in maternity appointments, as if she was simply a “vessel” carrying a baby rather than a patient in crisis.
She argues that HG care needs:
Earlier recognition
Better medication access
IV fluids for dehydration where needed
Human empathy and validation
Clear referrals to support services
11. Why Post-Pregnancy Support Is Still Missing
A major gap highlighted in the episode is what happens after HG ends.
Women may be vomiting right up until labour — and then suddenly expected to care for a newborn while still physically and emotionally depleted.
Clare explains that many women experience:
PTSD
Postnatal depression
Eating difficulties
Trauma around future pregnancy
Long-term anxiety
Yet there is little structured aftercare.
She suggests something as simple as:
A support group. A cup of tea. A space to talk to women who understand.
That alone could prevent serious mental health consequences.
12. Advice for Anyone Going Through HG Right Now
Towards the end of the episode, Clare shares direct advice for anyone currently experiencing HG.
Her message is compassionate but practical:
What you’re going through is awful — but there is help
Find community
Contact Pregnancy Sickness Support
Learn your rights
Don’t be frightened of medication
Bring someone with you to appointments
Ask someone to advocate for you when you can’t
Most importantly, she reminds women:
You are not weak. You are not “bad at pregnancy”. You are ill — and you deserve care.
13. Where to Find Support and Help
If you or someone you love is experiencing severe pregnancy sickness or HG, you don’t have to go through it alone.
Clare is currently raising funds to print and distribute The Hidden Mothers book to maternity units across the UK — helping healthcare professionals understand HG through real women’s stories and faces.
GoFundMe campaign:
Final Thoughts: Why This Conversation Matters
This episode is a reminder of something vital:
Women’s health cannot be treated as an afterthought.
HG is real. It is serious. It is traumatic. And women deserve to be believed and supported — from the first appointment to long after birth.
Huge thank you to Clare Hughes for sharing her story so honestly, and for turning her experience into a project that is helping women feel seen, heard, and validated.
Clare Hughes: She started explaining her experience of pregnancy saying, oh, I was quite sick, but I'm not sure it was hg. And then just went on to describe, she didn't go into work for four months and she had it for all her pregnancies and she was seriously unwell. And it's like, okay, so that is H hg. So it's like from so many years we we're kind of being told that this is just pregnancy and it's so dangerous.
Rena Annobil: Hi. Welcome back to The Lifestyle Prescription on Pharmacy Planet. I'm Rena Annobil. Thank you so much for joining me. I think today's episode is gonna be eye-opening for a lot of people. We are gonna be exploring Hyperemesis Gravidarum, and it's also known as hg. It's a severe form of pregnancy sickness. I'm not just talking about morning sickness.
I'm not talking about anything that can be alleviated by having a couple of ginger biscuits before you suggest that I'm talking about something that is relentless. It can be debilitating. It can take over all aspects of someone's life. My guest today is Clare Hughes. She is a photographer, she's a campaigner, and she has experienced HG and turned that experience into something very powerful, an exhibition which brings together lots of different women's experiences of hg.
So let's get into Clare's story details about her exhibition, and also more info about HG and how it affects women. Hello. Hello. Thanks so much for joining me, Clare.
Clare Hughes: You're very welcome. Thanks for having me.
Rena Annobil: Um, so first of all, let's get into your journey and your experience with hg. Like, did you even know what it is and did I say it right in that intro?
Because the pronunciation of that, like when you, when you look at the word, it's uh, you never know.
Clare Hughes: It's, it's a mouthful, isn't it?
Rena Annobil: Hyperemesis, hyperemesis.
Clare Hughes: Gravidarum
Rena Annobil: Gravidarum
Clare Hughes: Yeah. Hg hg. Yeah.
Rena Annobil: Okay. It's
Clare Hughes: just such a mouthful, isn't it?
Rena Annobil: I didn't even know it was a thing even when I was pregnant.
Clare Hughes: Mm-hmm.
Rena Annobil: Yeah. Was it the same with yourself?
Clare Hughes: Yes. So, um, yes. I didn't, I'd never heard of, never heard of HG until I had it. So, but even then, it, I was very unwell when I found out what it actually was. Um. So, yeah, it took, uh, a long time to be basically diagnosed and he, and only then I found out when it was written on a prescription and then I googled what is hyperemesis?
Gravidarum, because I was then receiving medical treatment. But this was about four months into my first pregnancy.
Rena Annobil: Okay.
Clare Hughes: After severe symptoms? Yeah.
Rena Annobil: Okay. So this was back in what, 2017?
Clare Hughes: This was 2016 when I was pregnant with my son. Yeah.
Rena Annobil: Okay.
Clare Hughes: Yeah.
Rena Annobil: So when we're talking about sickness, right? For people that, for people that think morning sickness, that's normal, feel a bit
Clare Hughes: sick,
Rena Annobil: you know, maybe throw up, get on with your day.
It's not that is it?
Clare Hughes: It's so much
Rena Annobil: more, isn't
Clare Hughes: it? It's just, I mean, I had, so I, in my first pregnancy. I didn't really actually get sick, so I had extreme nausea. So nausea makes it sound almost bearable. So it, it's almost like, uh, it just doesn't do it justice, how debilitating it actually is. So I couldn't eat, um.
I, I mean, well I sort of was eating very dry biscuits and then sips of water. Water even was just like disgusting to me. I had to have like flavored water. It was so specific. But yes, sickness as in pregnancy, sickness, it most definitely is not. I mean, you expected some sickness in the early stages of pregnancy, you know, in the first trimester at least.
Um. Yeah. And in the morning, you know, like when we, how we see it in the movies where yeah, a woman gets up performance in the morning and she's like, where to go? Yeah. Oh wow. You know, just how do my nose and off I go. Yeah,
Rena Annobil: exactly.
Clare Hughes: But um, yeah, it, it's very much not, that was not the case for me.
Rena Annobil: No. And, and this is what I want people to understand, that it's.
I would describe it as, and correct me if I'm, if I'm wrong, you know, because everyone's experience is different. Mm-hmm. But you know that feeling of when you are about to throw up Yes. And it's exactly awful. And that feeling
Clare Hughes: mm-hmm.
Rena Annobil: Takes over everything and you're like, oh my God, I'm gonna throw up. I'm gonna throw up.
Yeah. And you can't think about anything else. Yeah. And, and it, and you, you know. You do throw up. So that feeling just before you do where you feel really unwell.
Clare Hughes: Exactly, yes.
Rena Annobil: It's that, but constant, isn't it?
Clare Hughes: Exactly. It's that but constant. That's exact, yeah, that's exactly how I would describe it, is that if you had say, neurovirus, and you know when you vomit, there's a slight relief until it kind of comes on again and then you need to vomit again.
Yeah, it, but it's like that all the time. There's no relief and then you can't get sick as well. No. As well as. Kind of just, um, you, I mean some women have said that they, um, have had headaches and stuff as well. You have extreme saliva, so you get like a buildup of saliva and constantly need, feeling the need to spit.
Um, as well as, but then some women are vomiting. Like consistently for the whole nine months losing weight.
Rena Annobil: Yeah.
Clare Hughes: You know
Rena Annobil: my sister,
Clare Hughes: yeah.
Rena Annobil: My sister had to Wow. She
Clare Hughes: had
Rena Annobil: it. She had to be um, admitted to hospital on a few occasions and put on a drip. Yes.
Clare Hughes: Yeah.
Rena Annobil: And she had it for the whole time.
Clare Hughes: So that is the best treatment is to have to, because it's the dehydration as well.
'cause you're just so unwell. Yes. I mean, like if you went to the doctor with what my symptoms were and what most women's symptoms of HD would be, and you weren't pregnant. There would be serious investigations as to what's happening here. You're not eating, you're not drinking. Your body's effectively shutting down.
You are having suicidal thoughts. Um, you can't get outta bed, physically can't walk. Um, you have aversions to, to everything. So, so specific as well. So even women had aversions to things like the smell of their child or, um, the light coming in the window is too much. You know, if you went to a doctor with those symptoms or a family member.
Went to a doctor's say, I'm really worried about this person. They'd think, wow, we need to get some tests on what's going on here. But as soon as you bring pregnancy into it, which is crazy 'cause it's two people's lives then that you're dealing with. Yeah. It's just like, oh no, that's normal. Have a ginger biscuit.
You just need to deal. Have a ginger biscuit. You just need to deal with that. Or I wanted to try harder like. A ginger biscuit. Yeah, you just, the
Rena Annobil: amount of time people said that to me,
Clare Hughes: you wanna punch them, don't you? I mean,
Rena Annobil: I've had all the ginger biscuits, I've had all
Clare Hughes: the ginger biscuits in the super supermarket.
I don't miraculous thing of a ginger biscuit. Surely if it was that fucking, excuse me, excuse my phone. If it was that kind of like. Um, amazing. We wouldn't be using, wouldn't we be using this to like cure lots of things? I mean, it's just ridiculous. And most ginger biscuits don't even contain ginger anyway.
Rena Annobil: And, and the thing is, I've what some starts here, it affects of 30,000 women every year.
Clare Hughes: Yeah,
Rena Annobil: that's, that's how many people,
Clare Hughes: everyone once that are diagnosed though, right? So there's several women, like for instance, even when I.
When I, for my exhibition at the Science Gallery, um, the BBC uh, presenter who came along to interview me, um, about the exhibition, which was amazing. Um, she started explaining her experience of pregnancy. Saying, oh, I was quite sick, but I'm not sure it was hg. And then just went on to describe, she didn't go into work for four months.
Um, she had it for all her pregnancies and she was seriously unwell. And it was like, okay, so that is hg. So it's like from so many years we're kind of being told that this is just pregnancy and it's so dangerous.
Rena Annobil: Yeah. And, and, and it's not like other, other kind of illnesses, you know, you'll be like, you'll have a blood test and then they'll confirm, okay, you have this.
Clare Hughes: Yeah, exactly.
Rena Annobil: Yes.
Clare Hughes: But this is
Rena Annobil: just women thinking, oh, well I am pregnant.
Clare Hughes: Yeah,
Rena Annobil: yeah, sure. And there is a sickness involved a lot of the time.
Clare Hughes: Exactly, yeah.
Rena Annobil: But it's, yeah, it's, it's,
Clare Hughes: or this must be what morning sickness is and, or I'm just a bit rubbish. I'm not able to cope with this. And, you know, it's just, it's, which is not the case, you know?
Rena Annobil: No,
Clare Hughes: but it's really scary how many people aren't being diagnosed with hg. And it's also really scary how many women are sadly losing babies, wanted pregnancies saved. Women who have gone through IVF really wanting this baby and have had to abort it because it's so debilitating. You know, there's a reality of the financial implications.
I didn't get, I couldn't work for four months. Thankfully. I was in a situation where I could be supported by my husband, but lots of people may not be in that situation. One, you have to look after your child. Like I felt awful. 'cause I didn't, basically, I wasn't, I vanished from my son's life for four months and was just lying in a bed in a dark room.
Rena Annobil: Mm-hmm. So I, I became pregnant when my first child was nine months, which was a bit of, bit of a surprise.
Clare Hughes: Okay. Wow.
Rena Annobil: So. You know, I was looking after a baby. Yeah. And I'd just about gotten used to having a baby. Right. And then had this thickness again. And I kind of thought I didn't, I wasn't gonna have it.
And you know, in your head you're like, oh, this time it's gonna be fine. Yeah, yeah, sure. Right. 'cause I had really bad sickness and um, I just remember lying on my daughter's bedroom floor with her just playing around me and I was basically just like this, like drained, feeling sick, couldn't do much, couldn't really play with her.
Mm-hmm. You know? Um,
Clare Hughes: yeah. It.
Rena Annobil: Yeah, it wasn't
Clare Hughes: great. Nine months. That must have been quite traumatic.
Rena Annobil: Yeah.
Clare Hughes: When you see Breastfe, were you breastfeeding or, uh,
Rena Annobil: no, I wasn't at that point, but it was, that's good. It, it was, it was bad. You know, other people who I've spoken to
Clare Hughes: mm-hmm.
Rena Annobil: Um, they had it worse than me and they had some quite dark thoughts in that time.
Clare Hughes: Oh
Rena Annobil: yeah. You.
Clare Hughes: Lots of the women I, lots of, I mean I myself second time around, so I left a massive gap between, so my first, my, uh, son, he is now eight, so he was seven when my daughter was born. She's now six months. Um, and I let, so I left quite a big gap 'cause I was so traumatized. I really wanted another baby really deep down.
But I was absolutely terrified about going through it. So I kind of left it, left it, and I was. I was 41 when she was born. So, um, again, I left it, you know?
Rena Annobil: Yeah.
Clare Hughes: And then I thought, we sort of said, let's try, and then it happened quite quickly. And then it was like, I'm straight back in this again, and I was so unwell, even second time around, armed with the knowledge that I have and actually support, um, that I could contact obstetricians to get some guidance and some help in relation to drugs and what have you.
Um. I still was really unwell and I still very seriously considered, I can't do this. Yeah, I had to ring my doctor obviously not really getting anywhere, each GP that I ran 'cause I had to be really forthright and tell them what they needed to prescribe. 'cause the guidelines have all changed. But if your GP does not, you know, arm themselves with that knowledge, um.
You are a bit screwed, basically. So I had to say, rang a doctor and said what you needed to prescribe me, you know, what I needed to be prescribed. So with hg now they know that XVI as the first, um, drug to try, um, uh, is about having it prior. To the sickness. So say for instance, when my sickness starts around six weeks, which is really early, but say you were planning to have a baby and you knew you had hg, you could start taking zombie.
To help possibly alleviate some of the symptoms?
Rena Annobil: Right.
Clare Hughes: So once I, so basically once I had a confirmed pregnancy test, it was key that I got this drug. 'cause it could basically help maybe kind of not make the symptoms as worse. So that's why I was really stressing about, about getting this drug. So I, I did actually end up getting it, which was good.
But when I rang the doctor, the first instance she said, um, oh, I've actually never heard what is hyperemesis Gravidarum. And it was just so frustrated. The doctor
Rena Annobil: said to
Clare Hughes: you, yes.
Rena Annobil: What is hyperemesis? Grava
Clare Hughes: Durum and actually said to me. Oh, you must work in the medical profession. You seem to know so much about.
And I was like, no, I've just had it. And I've read the guidelines, I'm, you know, members, and I said to her, you know, you should read the guidelines. These have all changed. Um. So that was one instance. Then the next instance where I just couldn't cope with it, just dawn zombie. It just was happening again.
And I just felt, so, I just, I can't do this. I just, you know, all the trauma came back and I thought, how am I gonna do nine months of this, or even three months of this? 'cause it's so,
Rena Annobil: yeah.
Clare Hughes: Relentless.
Rena Annobil: And you just want it to stop.
Clare Hughes: Totally, totally. You just, yeah, just
Rena Annobil: want it
Clare Hughes: to
Rena Annobil: stop.
Clare Hughes: And then also the carrying of the baby is just such a responsibility as well.
Rena Annobil: Yeah.
Clare Hughes: And, um, so I. Yeah, so the sec, when I did actually get through to another gp, I said to her, look, please, I, I need help. I said, I just don't wanna do this. I can't go on with this anymore. And she, um, was saying that's when she started to take it seriously. And then tried the next drug, which is Ondansetron, because I was basically saying I need to be booked in for an abortion because I just, I genuinely could not go through that if I hadn't have got Ondansetron.
Rena Annobil: Mm.
Clare Hughes: I didn't. I did get Ondansetron, but I was still like, I'm not sure I can do this. So I had Ondansetron and it did help, but I still was sick, like still completely washed out. Debilitated Dark room again. Same old setup in a room on my own. Yeah. Not able, and then just picking at tiny bits of food.
Rena Annobil: Mm-hmm.
Clare Hughes: But I was lucky that I, I did vomit more the second time round. Um, and it was still just the same symptoms, still really sick. Went back to work four months on, but this time I was still nauseous, I would say the whole way through. Right. So, um, yeah, it was really, really awful, to be honest. So. I just, it's just nice this time around because I've had two now to know that I don't have to go through that again.
Yeah, yeah. Honestly, the nicest
Rena Annobil: feeling. Yeah. And, and I, I mean, I think I was a bit delusional because mm-hmm. Um, when I had my third, I was thinking, oh, it's not gonna happen this time because, you know, you kind of, yeah. You. Try to psych half up. You wanted
Clare Hughes: a baby? You wanted
Rena Annobil: Yeah, I wanted a, I wanted a baby.
Yeah. And I, and I convinced myself and I feel a bit like that's what, how we are designed as women. Mm-hmm. To put a bit of a rosy glow on things. Yeah. Especially because five years had passed.
Clare Hughes: Yeah.
Rena Annobil: By that point, you know, and you kind of think, okay, it's okay. 'cause you, the trauma goes away a little bit.
Right, of
Clare Hughes: course. Yeah.
Rena Annobil: It did happen again, and it was worse than ever because in my third pregnancy, mm-hmm. I was waking up at 3:00 AM to be sick.
Clare Hughes: No.
Rena Annobil: And this is as well as feeling sick. Sick the whole time. You weren't
Clare Hughes: even getting rest and sleep.
Rena Annobil: No. Wow. There was no sleep.
Clare Hughes: And you had two children.
Rena Annobil: Yeah, two kids.
Um, like under the age of five. Oh God. Uh, no. Seven and under. And, um. It at, at times I did feel a bit like, I just want this to stop. Like, I dunno if I can do this. And I feel a bit like, you know, I would hate anybody who watched this or, or heard anyone say that and, and thought, oh, that's so selfish. You're carrying a baby.
It's like, it's,
Clare Hughes: but,
Rena Annobil: you know, know all those,
Clare Hughes: you know all those things.
Rena Annobil: Yeah. And you, you don't wanna think that way, but it's like, it literally, you can't yourself live your normal life.
Clare Hughes: Yeah.
Rena Annobil: And you can't, and, and every single moment is mm-hmm. Taken over by the worst feeling of sickness. Yeah. And it's a long time.
Clare Hughes: Well, you can't think about to feel
Rena Annobil: like that.
Clare Hughes: Well you think about anything else.
Rena Annobil: No, you can't.
Clare Hughes: You know, if you that, like if you had neurovirus consistently for nine months, say
Rena Annobil: Hmm.
Clare Hughes: And you had two kids as well and then you've got all the mum guilt of I'm not being the right mom. I'm not, you know, I can hear it all going, life's carrying one around you, but you can't do anything, you know?
Yeah. You wouldn't treat somebody, you know, you wouldn't treat someone who you knew was. It's ill from other reasons. It's just something to do with pregnancy that it's again, back on the mum, why are you not good at this? Why are you not able to cope with this?
Rena Annobil: Yeah. And that's what you're meant
Clare Hughes: to be doing anyway.
You know? And you should be grateful because you should be grateful you're carrying a baby. Yeah. You should be grateful. You know, you, you can get pregnant. And we know all that. And don't, you know, we, we do not underestimate how lucky we are. Obviously as moms, you wanted those children.
Rena Annobil: Mm.
Clare Hughes: Of course having the child is the best thing ever, but you're still left with the trauma of it.
Rena Annobil: Mm.
Clare Hughes: You know, and also the fact that you haven't been helped, like I didn't really, I didn't feel helped. I mean, my first pregnancy, I had people prescribing gavascon, ginger biscuits. I mean, constantly. Have you tried a ginger biscuit and you just think God almighty, you know, it's really dangerous, dangerous advice as well, you know?
Rena Annobil: Yeah.
Clare Hughes: It's really dangerous, you know, it'd be like saying to somebody who has cancer, try this alternative. Have you tried this? You know, you have to be really careful and women are dying. You know, they may not have been diagnosed with hg, but they are dying from, you know, we have had our first death because of hg and sadly, the mum took her own life and lost her baby.
Rena Annobil: That is so awful.
Clare Hughes: I mean, it's the most horrendous thing that did not need to happen. Like really, really, really awful. And her mum's amazing and doing great things for the HD community, but it's a really awful, awful story and should not have happened.
Rena Annobil: Mm-hmm.
Clare Hughes: And um. You know, there's so many we don't know about.
I mean, there's one lady in the project that I shot and she, um, had her children a, a, a long time ago and she was never, she didn't even know she had hg uh, and she was treated really badly and um, she had a really, really rough time with it. And it's impacted her daughter to her a lot older now. And they were at the exhibition as well.
It was lovely to see them, but it just goes to show in terms of when she was having children to now, nothing's really changed. Because I'm still, you are still educating a doctor because it's a, a female related issue, health issue. It's not essential that they read the guidelines, even though if you, you know, if you're a doctor, you should be, um, a bit like menopause and what have you.
It's just an area that is not considered worthy of their time, and that's what's awful about it, you know, because it's the most important stage. In a woman's life, the most vulnerable will be as well, where we really need that medical help, you know? And um, you know, it is just that feeling that you are fussing and making a big deal about it.
Yeah. And even
Rena Annobil: way to, to feel like that. And, and when somebody does listen, it's, it's quite nice. Um, even, even when I was kind of, when the doctor said to me, um. I'm gonna assign you off work Yeah. For a couple of weeks. Mm-hmm. That was it. I probably needed longer, but even that was like a relief, like, okay.
It it's official.
Clare Hughes: Yes. Yeah.
Rena Annobil: I can stop working because I was, and
Clare Hughes: it's not just pregnancy actually.
Rena Annobil: Yeah,
Clare Hughes: yeah, yeah.
Rena Annobil: And because I was dragging myself into work and feeding like that all the time, and, and, and, you know, it was, it was quite, it was bad. I
Clare Hughes: mean, it's dangerous 'cause Yeah. You shouldn't be driving, you shouldn't be, you know.
Rena Annobil: No, I know.
Clare Hughes: You know, really, you know, you just don't know what the impact of that is. And I remember trying to go back into work first time around because again, it was, this is pregnancy, Clare, you know, you just try and get on with it. 'cause even my family didn't really understand what was going on. No one did.
And I tried to go back in and I remember feeling so sick 'cause I pushed myself too much and I just was so sick on the way, on the train, on the train back that I just had to get signed off from work is just, yeah. Debilitating.
Rena Annobil: It is debilitating. Mm-hmm. I remember when, um, there was a point in my pregnancies a few months in where this whole 24 7 sickness subside, subsided a bit and it just became morning sickness.
Yeah. So it just became getting up, throwing up in the morning and then carrying on on with the date.
Clare Hughes: Okay.
Rena Annobil: And that was brilliant.
Clare Hughes: Yeah.
Rena Annobil: Throwing up in the morning. Yeah. And carrying on with my day. Yeah. Getting on was a dream.
Clare Hughes: Yeah.
Rena Annobil: That, that is like, oh wow, this such a great, and
Clare Hughes: for most women, that's the worst
Rena Annobil: part.
I know. I know. But, and you are
Clare Hughes: loving it. You're
Rena Annobil: comparing to, 'cause I know what it was like before, like what you experienced as well, hg Um, so did you, did you get put into hospital and, and
Clare Hughes: put on a drip? I didn't. I didn't actually. Right. I was lucky. Mm-hmm. That, I mean, I, I probably should have been put on a drip at times.
Definitely. But, um, I didn't, sadly, I just ended up on zombie initially. Mm-hmm. Then on Dron and I stayed on both of those drugs. Um, and then I came off them at around five, six months.
Rena Annobil: Were you worried about side effects of this? Of course, because I think a lot of women would think I did myself, you know?
Mm-hmm. I didn't even look too much into the drugs, and I guess it's like. For me, I, there probably would've been a lot of family pressure from mom and sisters and stuff like, oh,
Clare Hughes: don't do it. You know, because, and
Rena Annobil: there
Clare Hughes: is women, I mean, my mom was scared too for me. Yeah. Yeah. And so is my husband. I mean, and also the problem is, is that when you're in the depths, you'll remember that when you're in the depths of hg, you know, in some ways you do anything for it to stop.
Um, but. Yeah, you can't, you, you can't be like, oh no, I'll do that research. Say for instance, you were well and you that you injured your knee and they said, take this drug, you, you'd research what the drug is and maybe if there was any side effects. But when you are in the midst of hg, you're not looking at a phone to do that.
You're not going on your computer researching. So I had to just take the word from the doctor and I do remember saying initially to the doctor, um, is it okay to take this in pregnancy? And I was really lucky that she just said yes. Because actually that's all I needed to hear was the reassurance and I just didn't, couldn't make that decision.
'cause you're so unwell. But there is risks in every, you know, there's risks in everything. I think there is a risk, there was a very tiny, tiny risk that of, um, cleft palate with ondansetron. But, but then the risk of say dehydration not eating or just losing the baby because I couldn't continue with it.
Rena Annobil: Mm-hmm.
Clare Hughes: Outweighed those risks.
Rena Annobil: Okay. And did it make you feel better?
Clare Hughes: It did because it meant that I could actually eat, and it also meant that I could. Continue with life a bit better. I was still really sick, you know, but I was not, I mean, when I stopped taking, I forget which one it was. I think I stopped taking on Dan Deron for a little while.
I tested it. I thought I'm, I feeling maybe a bit better now. I just started vomiting again, so I just had to go back on it.
Rena Annobil: Okay.
Clare Hughes: Um. So it did help Definitely could
Rena Annobil: function.
Clare Hughes: Yeah. You could function with it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I could. Yeah.
Rena Annobil: Right.
Clare Hughes: Yeah.
Rena Annobil: Because even with the eating thing, like the, I, I know that there was, there's some foods that I didn't eat for years afterwards because when I ate them at that time, I'd thrown it up again.
Clare Hughes: Or the smell or something.
Rena Annobil: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or something like that. Um, and so I, I remember at one point I lived on, uh, jacket potatoes, plain jacket potatoes with salt and butter, because the thinking was that when you threw 'em up again? Yeah. They, they didn't really taste of anything. Yeah. So that was, that was the whole theory, but Oh, you know, and it's that
Clare Hughes: plain
Rena Annobil: type of theory.
Yeah. It's so plain when I throw it up, um, it's not gonna taste of anything. Oh, that's sad that, so I'll just keep eating this.
Clare Hughes: Yeah, I know.
Rena Annobil: Yeah, I know. And then I went through a period of, um, I think I was signed off and then I was, um. I was eating ice lollies, which did help. Yeah. Only at the time that I was eating them.
Right. Lots
Clare Hughes: of pH hg women had ice lolls.
Rena Annobil: Yeah. Yeah. So, but only at the time when I was eating it. So I was, I remember eating ice lollies and the freezer, freezer was full of ice lollies and watching, uh, magic Mike and that for that moment, I felt great for, for the, for that, that is brilliant period of time.
Do you know what I mean? That's
Clare Hughes: what got you through. Yeah.
Rena Annobil: Magic Mike. And a nice, that sounds so dodgy.
Clare Hughes: That does sound,
Rena Annobil: that sounds gross, but you know,
Clare Hughes: whatever your boat, whatever gets through hg.
Rena Annobil: Um, what, um, what other support did you receive at that time from, uh, like obviously we're talking about medically you received some support in terms of medication, in terms of.
Friends, family?
Clare Hughes: Well, to be honest, I didn't really talk to anyone, if I'm honest, because I was just so sort of shut down. I mean, eventually when I say got back to work and things, um, but PE you're constantly educating people 'cause people just don't know about it or they go, oh my god, it sounds like I had that, or, you know.
Yeah. Um, so my second time around, obviously my family were. Uh, we're all aware that it was probably gonna happen again, so we kind of armed ourself with more knowledge and obviously from doing the project as well. Um, I was far more knowledgeable this time around, um, and actually when I found out that I was pregnant with my second.
I was on, it was the day before I was due to fly to Los Angeles to, to go to the HG Conference. Oh, okay. And I was photographing it and showing work from the project. So it was this like, will I, won't I go? 'cause it was a risk to go. But then I sort of thought, no, I'm not letting HG ruin this. But the trauma just came back 'cause I knew what was about to happen to me.
And then I was flying into a HG conference, which all they were talking about was. These stories that of women. Yeah. And it just put me straight back into that world. Um, but it was just so random to kind of be there showing the work, talking about HG and also just literally days into my, my pregnancy and then a bit kind of like, why am I here?
Why have I done this? And I had a horrific delay on the way back, but, um. So I got support and because I had more community there, so it was lovely. And I had support from, um, the community of women that I've, that I've met who, um, have all been through it and they were messaging me and supportive and that was really nice because.
You know what it's like when you don't have to explain it. Yes. Like an understanding of, and they'd say things like, look, you don't even need to message me back. I'm just thinking of, and that really helped.
Rena Annobil: Mm.
Clare Hughes: You know, and also just like, you will get through this. You know, you will, you are going to be okay.
You know, and that sort of moral support and just knowing that somebody really understands, and I think that's. Really key, isn't it? I think
Rena Annobil: it's so
Clare Hughes: important. It's so important. Yeah. 'cause it's the acknowledgement that yes, it's not, you are not crap. You know? This is what, what's happened to you is awful.
Yeah. But you can get through it. 'cause women have survived, you know? And you need to kind of hear that really, I think. Yeah. Yeah.
Rena Annobil: Absolutely. Um, so let's talk a bit about the exhibition. So when did you feel that you wanted to put your experiences into this exhibition?
Clare Hughes: Well, I think so post pregnancy, first time around.
So. I was left. I didn't really, during the pregnancy, I didn't really think about hg 'cause I, it, I kind of just wanted to get through it. I was really unwell, got back to work, and then everything was first. So I was kind of like, let's just get through this pregnancy. Mm-hmm.
Rena Annobil: But
Clare Hughes: I noticed that post pregnancy.
There was trauma, some sort of PTSD, definitely from the pregnancy, and I wanted to understand maybe what was going on. So, I mean, I'm a photographer, so in my work I like to, um, I use, I'm socially engaged photographer, so I like to think about ways my photography can help.
Rena Annobil: Yeah. Um,
Clare Hughes: and I tend to sort of research, um.
Old archives or collections. And so from history to try and find, um, a parallel with what's happening in contemporary issues in society. Mm-hmm. So I had always been fascinated by the hidden mother photography, which was in the Victorian era. It's actually quite spooky looking, but um. Uh, photographers used to, to, in order to get an infant shot of a baby that wasn't blurry or, you know, an in focus, you, they'd have to be very still.
So what they used to do is disguise the mother as a piece of furniture and then so that she could hold the baby in place so they could achieve a well shot photo photograph. But what you're left with is really eerie. And when you look back at the collection of those pictures, I was always just really fascinated by them.
'cause I just, they're just so mad, basically, but so beautiful and. But also really sad that there was a mother behind that. So on, you know, it's just not nice. Um, but really what that became was a metaphor for how I felt. So in hidden away, I was just in a room for months on my own. And also I, my, the actual thing that was happening to me was hidden from me.
'cause it was just dressed as pregnancy. So I didn't even know that this had a name, you know, what was happening to me. So that became a metaphor. But, so really what I wanted to do was. Also in a selfish way, I wanted to meet other women who'd gone through it to kind of feel validated that no, this is awful, and that more needs to be done.
And um, so I contacted Pregnancy Sickness support the charity, the UK charity, and offered my services as a photographer and said, I'd, I really wanna do this project where I used the visual metaphor of the hidden mother and explained my ideas and they thought this was great. So I ended up shooting the conference in London for them.
And then met, um, a lot of fellow, uh, women who'd gone through it, but also medical professionals inter on an international level. So it was just really interesting to hear.
Rena Annobil: Yeah.
Clare Hughes: And when I heard these stories I was like, oh my god. You are. It's like literally hearing me talk. And then some of them were horrific, way worse, but it was just like a validation.
So I thought, I'm going to get, I'm making this happen. So I just basically did a call out on social media and then through the charity they helped me to say, I am looking for participants. And I was. Inundated and I mean, I had women wanting to fly from America to be involved. Wow. To tell their story. I had all over, all over the world, all different age groups, just women wanting to tell their story and be heard and be like, I, I think I've had this, or I've had it so many times I've had, I've lost babies, you know, and just.
Would just literally write me messages just because they needed, they wanted the same thing I wanted, which was validation, community and understanding. 'cause they're left post-pregnancy where again, where you're really vulnerable and then you have the baby to look after, to process what's actually happened to you.
So, um. That was the springboard for it. But I just was like, oh my God. I, I can't tell everyone's stories. So, but we did three day sh we did a three day shoot at the founding museum, which was a really poignant space actually, which was great. They provided the space for me to do the shoot. Um, 'cause obviously that, that the founding museum in London tells the story of illegitimate babies that were left.
Um mm-hmm. It was like a, the first care system for protection of. Babies. Um, but the mother's story is very much not part of it because they were given a new identity and the only thing left of the mother was a token, which is part of their collection. So it's a really beautiful museum. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's a really powerful museum.
They do great exhibitions. Um, so they gave me the space to shoot. So I did a three day shoot and I shot 22 women, including myself. Um, and so the premise of the shoot and the project is that there's one shot of the mother hidden. As a, the hidden mother in the, in the metaphorical sense, the hidden mother, um, to highlight how she feels and it's just her name.
And then there's the straightforward portrait of her to say, I won't be hidden anymore. So this empowering, you will hear my story and then her story of hg. So, and that's the premise for the project. Um, and all the women really. Thought and I felt kind of mean 'cause when I was having to cover them over.
But they really understood and they got that, that metaphor was exactly how they felt Hidden away. Hidden
Rena Annobil: mm.
Clare Hughes: And their stories unheard. And so it felt really empowering for them to come forward and actually tell their story. And I really hope that's, you know, what, you know. That's, um, done them justice.
Really.
Rena Annobil: Yeah.
Clare Hughes: Yeah.
Rena Annobil: I, I think it's such a powerful project. Oh, thank you. Um, you know, I love how you've loved photography to, to tell these stories.
Clare Hughes: Mm-hmm.
Rena Annobil: And you've, and you brought in this book as well. Yes. So you have this book as well.
Clare Hughes: Yeah.
Rena Annobil: Um, the Hidden Mothers, and so this, I, I've just as you were talking mm-hmm.
Just then. I, 'cause when I flick through this, I saw this picture. Yeah. As one
Clare Hughes: of the,
Rena Annobil: I know when I just, it just clicked when you were talking about the fact that this little girl, uh, in the Victorian times. Her mom was actually kind of hidden cloaked and she was sitting with her. Right, okay.
Clare Hughes: Holding her in place.
Rena Annobil: Yeah. I mean, this must mean so much to these women in here to have their story told like this. Yeah,
Clare Hughes: and it was so brave. I mean, some of the women, they've really, in terms of their stories, they have really been through so much trauma loss. Um, they're just. Left kind of breath after what happened to them, and it's just not fair.
You know? It's really not fair and there's nothing post-pregnancy. So in terms of like postnatal depression. PTSD. Some women are still vomiting in the labor work unit and then they handed their baby and they're left with like eating issues. Because you haven't eaten for nine, nine months.
Rena Annobil: No. And you've not felt like yourself
for
Clare Hughes: nine months?
No. Don't even know what like, you know, you were saying you don't even know what you like anymore. Like No. 'cause your taste has just completely
Rena Annobil: Yeah.
Clare Hughes: Changed and then you're like, okay. Be and how great you did it. The baby's here, which is obviously, you are so relieved, the baby's there safely, but you know, she's so human.
You know, what she's been through is
Rena Annobil: Yeah,
Clare Hughes: horrendous. And we just have no kind of sympathy to that. It's just horrendous.
Rena Annobil: No.
Clare Hughes: You know,
Rena Annobil: like I just, I do feel that. Um, pregnant women and, and women who have just given birth need a lot more understanding and care that they get in because like, you know, with, with or without the pregnancy sickness, right?
Mm-hmm. But definitely with women, with hg you have not felt like yourself
Clare Hughes: mm-hmm.
Rena Annobil: For nine months. Yeah. Then afterwards, as we know women, you feel like you've been hit by some kind of a bus in all ways. Exactly. Whatever your, some worse than others, depending on whether you had a c-section or whatever, and then the hormones and not sleeping after all this stuff.
You, I, I remember giving birth and I was literally like. Do you expect me to look after this child?
Clare Hughes: Yeah, I know.
Rena Annobil: After what I've been through now. Yeah. Like,
Clare Hughes: yeah,
Rena Annobil: excuse me.
Clare Hughes: And get up and walk, get, you know.
Rena Annobil: Yeah. Like I'm expected to now look after this child. Like it's
Clare Hughes: just like, yeah,
Rena Annobil: I'm half dead. What do you want from me?
So,
Clare Hughes: yeah. Yeah,
Rena Annobil: yeah.
Clare Hughes: And the processing of all of what, I mean, I had an emergency C-section. I remember just feeling like. Some sort of vessel that they were like, right, you know, you can get up and walk round now. And I'm thinking what I like from down here was dead an hour ago. Yeah. You know, and then now I have to get up and walk round and, you know, hold a baby.
And, you know, and again, if you didn't have a partner, I mean, thankfully I had a, a, a husband who could support me, but, and family. But if you don't have that, reality is. You can't do that.
Rena Annobil: No. And some people are doing it on their own. Some
Clare Hughes: of '
Rena Annobil: em are doing it on their own.
Clare Hughes: I dunno how they're doing it. I mean, hats off to them because it's just, and you know, it shouldn't be that hard, really.
But I think also just that the processing after pregnancy, you know, what do we expect the knock on effect to be for the children, you know? Like what? What? You know, like for her, the mother's mental health is basically being completely affected. The knock on effect is that maybe she's not going to be able to mother in the way that she would like to.
But so as part of the project, I also did a workshop with participants who mm-hmm. So it was, um, to do with that reclaiming yourself after hg so we, we know amongst the community of women who've gone through it, the knock on effect on their mental health is awful. Prevent you maybe going again. So many trauma, so much trauma around it, if you've lost babies, what have you.
And, um, but there's nothing, nothing at all for women post pregnancy in to support them. So I wanted to do a workshop where I used photography to, uh, help them. They would. They responded to the theme, what you'd like people to know about hg and they went away and took some pictures about their, or they used pictures from their time where they were kind of recording their HG story and we met and we just sort of used photography as a way to talk about our experiences of HG.
And then we put, made a collaborative art piece, which was on in the exhibition alongside the project as well. And I would really love there to be an international collaborative art piece where each country does the same workshop. Mm-hmm. Or women can get involved. And we make this collaborative artwork to show our stories of hg but it was so, it was just so rewarding and so small, such a small thing for these women for us to meet and just hear each other's stories and do that.
But it was so. It was just so, I want to think of a different word than rewarding, but. It was just so powerful. Yeah. Because it was like, we really need this. And just that, just this acknowledgement of what we went through and the community and support of each other. It was really, really moving. It was just so lovely and they, they, we all agreed that we need more and this would be a really good thing to roll out if we could.
There really needs to be more for women's mental health.
Rena Annobil: Yeah.
Clare Hughes: You know? 'cause obviously the pro we know the pregnancy is horrific. We know it is physically, but mentally when you're going through it as well. It's just so hard to wake up every day knowing that it's another day of this.
Rena Annobil: Yeah. It,
Clare Hughes: you know, and then on effect,
Rena Annobil: it's, it's really
Clare Hughes: tough.
Yeah. Yeah.
Rena Annobil: Yeah. Um, you know, you spoke to a lot of women, right? Mm-hmm. You heard from a lot of women and 22 women Yes. Women's stories mm-hmm. Are, uh, part of that exhibition and the book. Mm-hmm. Um, what are some of the experiences that really stayed with you or, or shocked you to your core?
Clare Hughes: God, to be honest with you, they are so many, like, so, I mean, obviously the, the losses.
You know, women lose basically wanting a baby and maybe not being able to go through with the pregnancy. That's awful.
Rena Annobil: It is in terminating the
Clare Hughes: pregnancy. Yeah, because they just couldn't go through it with it. Then I think a lot, a lot of issues was also around, um, families not supporting as well. That was quite because.
Say you might have an in-law that is, well, we are able, just not a lack of understanding. Yeah. And again, a kind of like, no, this is pregnancy and you should be able to deal with it.
Rena Annobil: Mm-hmm.
Clare Hughes: So there was that, but there was also the suicidal ideology. Like there was, I mean, I would say most of us felt you wanted to end your life and your pregnant, you know the thing you want so much and you are, it's that bad 'cause you just feel like you're dying.
Your body is basically breaking down and you just want it to end and you would. You know, you would do anything for it to end. It's so relentless. So I think, I mean, that's so dark, isn't it? That
Rena Annobil: it really
Clare Hughes: is. You know, it's just like this should be the most, you know. The greatest time of your life. Yes, it's the most vulnerable.
And, you know, you're, you are embarking on something that's really frightening, but it's also an amazing experience as well. But yeah, that's, that's hard to hear. And us be so kind of like, yeah, I wanted to kill myself, you know, in pregnancy. That's horrendous.
Rena Annobil: It is horrendous.
Clare Hughes: And then it just not, and then you, not, not that not being acknowledged, especially when it can be helped and treated just with a little bit of, you know.
Education. So I think that that's shocking. But, um, I think the knock on effect of, of pregnancy and the trauma it had on the women, you know, it's all there when you speak to them. You know, it's just all there on the surface. Mm-hmm. You know?
Rena Annobil: Um, where do you think that the biggest gaps are in terms of, you know, what you've experienced, what you've heard, the biggest gaps?
Um. In terms of healthcare professionals really understanding what women want and, and giving them the support they need, and are things changing?
Clare Hughes: Um, I think things are, I mean, I'm hearing, I'm hearing, I think they're changing. Um, but I did have to, I mean, I, I, I dunno, because I suppose I'm armed with so much knowledge.
Rena Annobil: Mm-hmm.
Clare Hughes: I was a, I was, I was more forthright in my care. Second time round, I hope things are changing. I think some of the leading obstetricians would say things are changing. Um, I do think because there's been a lot more of people who say be, are in the pri in the public eye, you know, that have had hg like Emma Clarkson.
Um, she's doing great things and she was so raw in how bad HG was. So maybe in the online community we're a bit more aware of maybe severe sickness instead of it just being pregnancy. I really hope so. Um, but I'm not sure enough is changing. I mean, the guidelines, policy updates, that's good that there's a reassurance in the medication that there is actually medication specifically you can take in pregnancy that's quite big.
Um. And the fact that, uh, with the policy, with the change in the guidelines and policy, you know, you could refer to your GP that way you can get help through pregnancy sickness support, but I just, it's still not enough because there's an option for a GP on your first line. It's about the first person, the first bit of care you get.
I don't know how it would be if I went into hospital because really women should all be put on drips for to. Help with, um, dehydration. Um, but my, my, I got sent home from hospital because they checked my ketones, which is the wrong thing to do. Apparently the change in the policy now is that you, the ketones don't relate to how dehydrated you are in pregnancy,
Rena Annobil: right?
Clare Hughes: I mean, I'm not a, I'm not completely, um, yeah. You know,
Rena Annobil: but you know, we, we, you're not, he,
Clare Hughes: you are, you are somebody
Rena Annobil: who
Clare Hughes: has experienced and looked
Rena Annobil: into it. And as somebody who has experienced this mm-hmm. And spoken to lots of women who've gone through hg, what do you think and what do you want ideal care to look like For women who have hg
Clare Hughes: I think of definitely that there should be that medical professionals, whoever you are, gp, maternity, um, they need to be trained in it.
Just no shadow of a doubt. You need to do this module. You know, just update yourself on the policy. You know, the policy that would just, you know, the change in policy guidelines that update yourself. You, you know, um. But a more kind of acknowledged 'cause I just remember being ignored. I remember lying and on the side when I was going to see like my maternity thing.
Maternity appointments, and there wasn't even an acknowledgement that what I had was HG or that was severe. It was just, they ignored me and I was literally, felt like a vessel. They were just doing my, you know, blood, um, blood pressure and things like that whilst I was like effectively dying in front of them.
I felt like I was Mm. And they were just ignoring me. I think it's that, isn't it? It's the kind of lack of humanity and also just like, I'm not, what am I, do you think I'm doing, like, do you think I'm putting this on? Or like, you know, and so. I think, uh, more understanding about how bad it is. And, but no one once ever said to me, have you, have you heard of the pregnancy sickness support?
Um, nothing like that. If there could be more like community based, uh, so in like, you know, the maternity centers, the child. Care centers where you get advice on breastfeeding, things like that. Why can't there be some groups where women meet?
Rena Annobil: Absolutely. I don't remember any.
Clare Hughes: No. And also what I struggled with is I feel like I didn't want to engage much with our mother and baby groups because they'll, the conversation would naturally be, how was your pregnancy?
How was your birth? You know, how was your pregnancy? And I'd be like, I was really sick. And their, their response was, oh God, yes. So was I. But you know, and you don't wanna belittle what they've been through, but at the same time you're like, no, I was really ill. You know, I wanted to die. I was that unwell. I considered getting rid of this pregnancy, you know, which is a horrendous thing to even consider, you know?
So I don't wanna take away your experience of, um, you know, nausea in the first trimester. I'm sure it was awful, but you know, it's not the same. But if you had, but you know, if you had another mom who'd been through the same thing as you, and you could share those experiences, that's processing, that is helping me not have postnatal depression.
That is. So minor, it's a cup of tea in a center that's probably empty anyway, you know, and a bit led by maybe a maternity or a midwife to say this is what's happening as an aftercare thing. 'cause we do care basically. That would be brilliant. I mean, that's kind of what I want to do with the book is that I've got a GoFundMe set up to try and get the book printed and dispatched because what I wanted is to get it sent to all the maternity units across the UK and to have it in those wards so that they can hear firsthand stories 'cause it's all very well and good reading about things.
But if you don't visually see a woman and look, you can't ignore her face. You can't ignore when she's covered with Van, you know, piece. That's what we're doing. That's what you're doing to me. You might as well have just put a sheet over my head, you know, when I went in. 'cause you're just basically saying, I don't care.
You're irrelevant, basically. But if you can get that book in their hands, I'm hoping that the visual impact of doing that to a woman and hearing her stories that she's. You've gotta hear her story. Here's her face that that will be impactful. And also it tells you where to get help. Pregnancy sickness support.
You should be referring all of these women going through this too. That where there is care or hopefully some sort of community-based support group would be brilliant, you know?
Rena Annobil: Okay. So there's a GoFundMe to do that?
Clare Hughes: Yes. Yeah.
Rena Annobil: Book. Okay. Which would be amazing because it's a great book. Yeah. For a woman to read about another real woman.
Yeah, exactly. Who she can resonate with her story.
Clare Hughes: Yeah. Yeah.
Rena Annobil: Is a very powerful thing. 'cause most of feeling alone is very damaging
Clare Hughes: Totally.
Rena Annobil: To anybody. Particularly as you said, that vulnerable time when you're carrying a baby. Yeah, it's, it's absolutely awful. I, you know, I remember. The being pregnant for the third time, so I know how this goes, right?
Mm-hmm. I know how this goes every night. I'm googling When will this end, when will pregnancy sickness end? I'm, and I'm googling it thinking, you idiot. You know when it ends. Like, but because I was so desperate, of
Clare Hughes: course,
Rena Annobil: every single night.
Clare Hughes: Yeah.
Rena Annobil: When will pregnancy sickness and I know Googling
Clare Hughes: and then the fear that it may not, that was awful,
Rena Annobil: isn't it?
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, and you know, when I was signed off, I remember just waiting, lying on the sofa. Waiting for my husband to come back from work.
Clare Hughes: Mm-hmm.
Rena Annobil: Just so I could cry to him.
Clare Hughes: Yeah.
Rena Annobil: Because you know that feeling of feeling alone, right? Yeah. And so that is why I just think that your, the exhibition is powerful and this book is powerful, and I, you know,
Clare Hughes: oh, thank you.
Rena Annobil: Just all the best with it. Thank you. Um, and do you, do you know if, if you have, um, well, obviously you have Spark conversations with this. Mm-hmm. What kind of conversations are taking place are, um, I think I read somewhere that because of your exhibition, you know that there, there are, um, people in the medical field, some people who have taken note of that and are having conversations about HG and improving things for women.
Clare Hughes: Yeah, so we had an exhibition prior to the exhibition we had at the science gallery. We myself and pregnancy sickness support, um, uh, that I. I collaborated with Charlotte Howden, who's the um, CEO of the charity. Yeah, and we put on an exhibition at the House of Parliament and this was to do with the change in policy and Maria Ufford, who was the MP at the time, she had said it was gonna be on the women's health agenda and top priority to kind of see change moving forward.
Um, so that was a really, that was a really great, there has been lots of, I mean, we got a lot of media coverage, BBC coverage that covered it as well, which was fantastic. But, um. There has been, um, I mean I've had a, I've had the exhibition exhibited in America with her foundation as well, so I think internationally there's interest as well because it's not just an issue in the uk.
Mm-hmm. And because people saw the exhibition and. How it was a great way basically to visually communicate what women more impactful that, that this is going to hopefully be rolled out internationally. Um, but it was great 'cause they had the, the policy lab at the, on the same day we had the exhibition where we invited people from the medical profession to come and hear stories and see the exhibition.
So, um, that was good. Again, that's to do with the change in guidelines as well, but, um, uh, yeah, I'd like more, I think the book would be great. That's gonna be a great kind of like, um, legacy really, you know, because I need to get it more into the hands of the staff. I need to kind of get into the NHS basically.
That's kind of what I need to do.
Rena Annobil: Yeah.
Clare Hughes: And, and that women who are. Their first experience isn't to underplay what they're going through. Yeah. And to give them voice of what and understanding about what it is they're going through.
Rena Annobil: Yeah.
Clare Hughes: Yeah. So I'm hoping that I just need to get that money to get that printed, but we're getting there.
Hopefully Will
Rena Annobil: Good. Yeah, you will. Yeah, you will. I'm, I'm sure. 'cause it's, it's, it's brilliant.
Clare Hughes: Yeah.
Rena Annobil: And I, and I love when like, creativity, art, and real experiences come together.
Clare Hughes: Exactly.
Rena Annobil: And create change. Because that's essentially,
Clare Hughes: that's the real power of
Rena Annobil: Yeah. That
Clare Hughes: is having an art form that's. The power in art, really,
Rena Annobil: that is the power
Clare Hughes: in art, is that it can, you know, it can basically communicate really quite boring data into something really powerful because there's only so many times you can hear a story or even the visuals or a sick woman with a pregnancy.
You just become, it's oversaturated. You need to hear it, you need to see it framed in a different way for you to kind of have an impact, basically. But I think that's why the hidden metaphor is. It's hard when you think, gosh, that's actually a, that's a mother under there.
Rena Annobil: Yeah.
Clare Hughes: You know, it's really quite, you know, a visionary for what you're doing.
You're saying sort of be quiet, put up, shut up.
Rena Annobil: Mm-hmm.
Clare Hughes: You know?
Rena Annobil: And if there is somebody who is watching this or listening to this Yeah. And they are suffering from severe pregnancy sickness themselves. Mm-hmm. Or they have someone in their family or friend circle that is, what would you wanna say to them?
Clare Hughes: Oh God. It is awful. What you're going through there is help. Um, it is awful. Um, but find community. Get in contact with pregnancy sickness support. Educate yourself, know your rights. There is medication. Don't be frightened of the medication. I would say, you know, it is scary 'cause you are pregnant, you know, and medication may seem scary.
Um, you've got to find somebody to fight for you. As well. You need somebody that's gonna maybe come with you to hospital visits to get you that drip. You need to have somebody who's gonna come with you to your appointments, or if that's over the phone, do it on your behalf. Um, but pregnancy sickness support can help, um, yeah.
Getting, you know, follow us on, on Instagram, the hidden mothers and become part of our community for change. You know, moving forward. I've got a daughter now, so. There is hope. There is hope in the future in terms of treatment for HG and finding, um, you know, uh, not a cure. Well, hopefully a cure, but a way to treat it.
Managing it. Yeah, exactly. Managing it better. So for my daughter, I have to keep fighting 'cause she may, she may or may not. That's the thing about hg it's really random. You know, you may be genetically, um. Uh, a habit, but you may not, you may have it for one pregnancy, you may not for another. So, but if my daughter, um, in the future wants to get pregnant, I wanna make sure that things are changing and that she's gonna be heard and she's going to be held because I just don't want another her to be going through that and that generation, you know, fingers crossed it'll be better, you know?
Rena Annobil: Well, thank you so much. Oh, thank you for having me. For coming on today. Lovely. Having me. Yeah, it's been really nice talking to you and thanks so much for what you're doing for raising awareness. Oh, thank you, um, of PhD as well, and for sharing your experiences here today with everybody.
Clare Hughes: Sorry to hear that you went through it three times as well.
Rena Annobil: I, I know. I know. Yeah, it wasn't great, but, you know, listen, this is great and, uh, I wish that this had been there when I'd been going through that. 'cause it, I think it would've helped me mentally and emotionally. So that's why I, I support this and I, I think it's brilliant. Um, and to everybody who is watching, um, we are gonna leave links below of, um, Clare's.
Page where you can, uh, support her, her book and also links to where you can get support for pregnancy sickness if you, so you are suffering from HD as well. I hope that you have found this episode useful. I hope it's given you an insight into something that you might not have known about before and, um, to just kind of know how you can support somebody who is going through experiencing hg.
That's all for this episode. I'm gonna catch you on the next one. Take care. Bye-bye.
