The Lifestyle Prescription – Episode 15: Diet Myths, Emotional Eating & Sustainable Nutrition with Vanessa Sturman

And let's get into it. Hello, Vanessa.

Vanessa Sturman:  Hello. Thank you for having me. 

Well, it's good to have you here. And I first of all wanna get into your journey actually, because you know, I know, uh, you have struggled in the past with your relationship with food. So how did you get from that and overcome that to get to this point where you're now kind of coaching others?

Vanessa Sturman: So I think the first thing I'll say is that I have always. Loved food. Food has always been a big part of my life, my family's life. We celebrate with food, as do many families and food should be for enjoyment. You know, this isn't just about fueling us. Food is a massive part of our culture, how we express ourselves enjoyment.

And I've always felt that. And I didn't have a, a problem with food probably until I became about 15. And now this is years ago, so I, I'm 38 now, so we're talking well over 20 years ago. And I had put on a bit of weight by the time I was 15. You know, I was eating, probably didn't care about what I ate, I just ate food that, that tasted nice.

And I was out walking with my dad one day and I said to him, Ooh, dad, can we run to the end of the path? I just wanna get a bit fitter. You know, it was very, very, very healthy outlook, to be honest. Mm. Started doing little bits of walk running. Eating a bit more fruit and veg, things like that. 

Rena Annobil: Mm. 

Vanessa Sturman: But that turned very quickly into running seven miles a day, drastically cutting my calories, right, becoming completely obsessed.

My period stopping and turning into a starvation binge cycle. I became very unhappy, very depressed. It was very dangerous. I need to make that clear. It's very, very dangerous being in this place. Like you said, your period stopping that is really dangerous. Did you lose that much weight then? I did. I did.

It looks different for each person as well, you know, and I'm not an eating disorder specialist, and anyone who is struggling with something like that, please, please go and see a doctor. Yes, I did look too thin. But everyone can look slightly different when their period stopped. For example, you know, everyone's, you can't always tell from the outside what's going on, on, on the inside, but I was definitely very, very sick from that.

Now. What happened one day is, you know, people were trying to get through to me and I, you know, said, absolutely not. I'm gonna carry on doing this. I didn't actually know how else to eat or survive other than not eating much during the week and then binging on weekends. You know, my body was in that horrible, horrible cycle and I was babysitting one night, absolutely binge their entire house.

They probably would've had to restock all their food. I'm very sorry if you are that family. Uh, you might not even remember. And I did have my head down the toilet that night. That was the night I finally actually saw myself. I saw myself and had a conversation with myself, and by that time I was 17 years old.

Doing a levels was like going out and enjoying myself, but very, very unhappy and very, very trapped. Very, very alone. 'cause no one knew what was actually happening. I hadn't actually told anyone really what was going on. So people didn't really know just how sick I was, even though people had raised concern.

And I saw myself and I had this conversation where I said, Vanessa, what are you doing? Are you really gonna live like this? You're only 17. You've got a whole life ahead of you. Are you going to do this for the rest of your life? Are you gonna be in this painful cycle for the rest of your life? You've gotta sort yourself out.

And I decided right from tomorrow, I am going to be a normal person. Now, of course, there's no such thing as a normal person, and I had no idea. How does a normal person behave around food? Anyway, so I asked myself a series of questions. I said, okay, how can I make sure I'm thriving and healthy and stay a healthy weight, but don't have to do this whole extreme restriction stuff?

How can I, you know, eat out, travel, enjoy myself and not be thinking about food all the time? I was thinking about food all the time. It dominates your thoughts. And then I asked myself probably the most important question, which was, how can I eat cake and still thrive and be a healthy weight and enjoy myself and not feel guilty from eating that?

And that's what pushed me into saying, right, I've got to go and learn about evidence-based nutrition. I've got to go and learn. What are the foods that really fill me up? What are the foods that make my body really healthy? How do I make things tasty? And how do I build in things like cake in a way that does not make me think about food all the time?

And does not mean I have to have specific days, cheap days. I think people call them where I eat those. And it pushed me into that 'cause I wanted to enjoy my life. 

Rena Annobil: I'm really quite impressed that at that age. And at that low point, you then had the, you got into that mindset yourself. 

Vanessa Sturman: I, I did. And I, I think one thing I will acknowledge is the support network I had.

Mm-hmm. And the different situations. I thank you. And you know, I, I know I had a strong mindset. I also had very supportive parents. I grew up in a really wonderful, highly educated household. I knew how to cook and manage food. I've been cooking since I was about seven years old. So I had a lot of tools and backing to help me.

Make that transition. My mum did send me to counseling as well. You know, I was very, very lucky in what I had with me. Yeah. Um, and other people don't have that as well, which is why I probably didn't get some of the same formal help other people might need. Mm-hmm. I maybe wasn't in as dangerous position as other people were.

So there are some things you can do on your own, but I encourage people to go and get professional help to bring themselves out of something like that as well. 

Rena Annobil: So, okay. You are now an award-winning health speaker on health and nutrition. Right. Um, what are the main things that you now like to focus on when, when you are, uh, speaking to people and coaching people?

Vanessa Sturman: The main things I love to focus on are dispelling the nutrition myths. Mm. Giving people progress over perfection. So saying, right, there's loads of things that you could go and do with your nutrition, but what are the basics? What are the foundations? So often when people try to get healthy, they go, right, what are, you know, I'm gonna cut everything out.

I'm gonna be perfect. And I say, right, just, just stop a moment. Let's look at what we could start adding in. Let's look at the small changes and tweaks that we need to do every day because we've got to make this sustainable for the rest of our lives. And a lot of the time, a lot of nutrition advice out there is not particularly sustainable, not particularly doable for most people, and often is quite privileged and elitist.

It can, and this is something that we really need to talk about when it comes to things like ultra processed foods and convenience foods. We will get onto that. Yeah. Which we'll get onto it because I, I feel quite strongly about that as well. And a lot of people can't make all their own food. For example, they can't do everything from scratch.

They can't avoid every preservative, and they absolutely don't need to, but we do need to make progress over perfection. Even when it comes to exercise habits, three 10 minute walks a day, it doesn't look as cool as what people are doing on social media with all these pull-ups and crazy transitions and transformations.

But getting people just moving more, those small things could absolutely make a huge difference. 

Rena Annobil: You know, all this, um, kind of, uh, progress over perfection, being consistent and just leading kind of a normal, more of a normal life that is doable. Right. Um, uh, that and you having to unlearn things about, um, the way you thought about food because you, you know, from coming outta that eating disorder.

Do you think these things, um. Uh, it has required you to kind of, uh, think differently about how a healthy body should look and do you think that that is a necessary thing for people to do? And the reason I'm asking you that is because I think that is one of sometimes the most, uh, one of the big driving factors in people going on some healthy lifestyle.

It is vanity and it is wanting to look a certain way and it is thinking this is what healthy looks like. 

Did you have to unlearn those things? 

Vanessa Sturman: Absolutely, completely. I think. There's nothing wrong with having a little bit of vanity in the sense of saying, I wanna look good. I want to present at my best.

But you are totally, totally right. There are so many health regimes and protocols and diets that are purely about losing weight. Now, from a behavior change perspective, we know that it's very difficult to sustain things if you only goal is weight loss or weight management. We have to look at health in the whole, how is this gonna help my relationships?

How is this gonna help my body do the things I want it to do so that I can travel, work, be happy? We need that much more holistic range of goals for it to be truly sustainable. Then the other side of things is that we can lose weight and still not be healthy. The, of course, and there's a, a nuanced discussion here about, you know, we do want to stay as healthier weight as possible, which is different for each person.

We know that having large amounts of weight gain can be problematic, but it is not the only thing to look at. You can't, for example, feel cholesterol building in your arteries and you can be slim or look like you have, you know, what might be on social media, an ideal body and still not be particularly healthy.

And the other thing that's really important here is that some people may feel so far away from healthy because their body doesn't conform to a social media shape well. 

Rena Annobil: You know what, I, I feel quite sad these days, Vanessa, to be honest with you, because there was this body positivity movement that was happening a few years ago.

Right? Which, great, and, and, and like you, I feel like there is a certain amount of, oh, I wanna look a certain way, which is the best version of me that you should have in order to keep doing these things that you might not be motivated to do otherwise, working out, eating healthy and stuff like that, right?

But then. I feel like now there is a certain body type that is now being pushed on social media and with celebrities and stuff, which is the very, very slim mm-hmm. Uh, one, and it's, you know, I, I will mention weight loss drugs here. Now, I'm not saying that they're bad and they, you know, obviously help some people out.

But when you've got people like, um, Serena Williams for example, saying, oh, this is how, you know, I wanted to look a certain way. And she's a, she's an athlete, right? She's a sports woman and she's done that. And there's certain celebrities who are having, who are looking very gone. Noticeably yes. It's really disheartening, isn't it?

Vanessa Sturman: It is disheartening and I think it's also very important that people are not listening to celebrities, but listen to your doctor. Go and have a conversation with your doctor to decide if something like the weight loss drugs are right for you. And yes, it is very disheartening seeing this very specific body type that we've almost gone back to because Skinny was in a, in invert comm in kind of years ago when we, I think the nineties.

The nineties, yes. It was very, very damaging and it's been great seeing celebrities from the nineties come out and say, actually, I was very, very sick even though I presented. Okay. On screen. And, you know, seeing things like even some of those toxic programs, which I enjoyed as a teenager, like America's Next Top Model, and then looking back and hearing the things that were said, I thought no wonder we all had such a huge I know, problem with our body, right?

Rena Annobil: I'm just, I'm in my forties and I've just unlearned a lot of those things that we were kind of conditioned to think. Yeah. You know, and, and I will say now that like I, um, I, I don't weigh myself all the time, but the other day, um, I did because I'd started to, um, put on weight and stuff and I was like, oh my God, but I'm so healthy.

Why am I doing it? I realize it's 'cause I was eating way too much. Right. However, um, I, and we'll come onto that, uh, kind of thing in a bit, but, um, my goal weight that I've had now got to, and I'm quite happy within myself. This was the weight that I was trying to lose half a stone from. About 10 years ago.

Do you know what I mean? Wow. And now this is the weight where I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm good at this weight, I'm healthy and I'm working out and I'm still, I'm eating decent food. And I, and it's just funny 'cause like, I would never dream of being like, well, I need to lose half a stone more to look like this. I, I would never do.

You know what I mean? I've just kind of let go of that. Yeah. And it's taken a long time. So do you feel like you've kind of transformed the way that you feel about your body from, um, kind of just overcoming what you went through?

Vanessa Sturman: Completely. And I think it's the mental health side of it as well. Mm-hmm. Is that someone gave this great phrase, which was, it's not a healthy way to be, or it's not your healthy way if you're unhappy all the time or you can't have any of the food that you want.

It's, you know, and it's a healthy choice. If having a piece of cake after dinner or whenever it is that you, you want, it means you don't binge at the weekends. That piece of cake is a healthy choice. It. It's got to be enjoyable, and yet that's what I transitioned to was how can I enjoy my life? How can I feel really good?

There is so much more to you than how you look. I mean, there's this lovely phrase I heard and I can't claim it for myself, which is how you look is the least interesting thing about you now. Yes, you want to be healthy and it is so important. We're encouraging that and encouraging healthy habits, whether someone was using weight loss drugs or not, but it was.

Understanding what are the healthy habits that are going to make me feel good, that I know are gonna contribute to my long-term health. Whether that's building in more fruit and veg, building in more nuts, seeds and whole grains going on, short walks, even if I can't get to the gym and work out what is that progress over perfection.

And that's made me feel so much happier. 'cause I think people are in this all or nothing approach. And that's what I had to come away from was the all or nothing approach. Nothing is off limits for me unless I want it to be, or ethically, some things are off limits for me. But that's a, that's a completely different conversation to, to the health side.

So it was saying, I can have whatever I want when I want. The moment I had that mindset, I didn't want to eat cake all day. You know, I actually wanted to, you know, that's the, the restriction things. Sometimes the restriction really, really causes people to often just binge more. We know that as well. So it's a much healthier choice when we build in some of the less healthy foods, ironically, because it actually can encourage us to eat more balanced food.

'cause we know if I want to have that, I can. And then sometimes you don't want it, sometimes you do. And if you do want it, go and enjoy it. Don't have guilt around it. And it was coming away from all of those feelings that just made my life so much better. 

Rena Annobil: Mm-hmm. Just staying on the subject of food now and managing our relationship with food, can you just explain the difference between discipline and restriction when it comes to food?

Vanessa Sturman: Oh yeah. Brilliant. So restriction is actually saying I absolutely, I mean, look, restriction looks different for each person and. It generally has very negative connotations because there is a certain level of re You know, like I said, if we were to literally eat cake all day, we know that it might be lovely for a day, but we know it's not a, it's not a healthy thing to do.

But then we have, I'd maybe call it extreme restriction where we're actually saying, I'm not allowed that product or that product, or I am only allowed it at weekends. That is restriction. You can actually have that cake or that biscuit or that fried food any day of the week. And that means people end up thinking more about food.

They'll get more what some people call food noise, which is more complex than what I've just described, by the way. But it means that you're gonna be thinking about food all the time because you've got all of these restrictions around it, right? Discipline discipline's really, really fantastic actually, and we do.

We need it for everything. If you think about all areas of your life, say you think about your, your work life, your job, that's probably a better way to start looking at discipline. You have your emails hopefully organized, you are hopefully doing something with your inbox, and you know that if you don't manage your inbox a bit, that things are gonna become a bit more stressful.

So you have a level of discipline, do I get to my meetings on time, et cetera. You don't have to be obsessive, but we know we have a bit of discipline in that area when it comes to our food and our health. We do need a bit of discipline, which is more about, I would say, how we organize our lives. How am I going to make sure that I get that 10 minute walk-in?

Have I gone to the supermarket and packed my freezer with frozen fruit and veg so that I can put it on my oats in the morning and make sure I am actually getting some fruit into my nutrition? That's more about what discipline's like. Mm, can I make sure I get a balanced or as balanced as possible meal together before I have the piece of cake?

That's a great piece of discipline to be into, to say, have I got some of the stuff in the fridge to have even a loaded avocado, one toast with, you know, extra vegetables, pieces of marinated tofu for more protein before I have that donut or something like that. That's more what I describe as discipline.

Which is sounds like something that we do need in our lives. We, we do. Discipline is really, really important. It is very hard to stay healthy if you have absolutely no discipline, but it does not have to be a whip. It does not have to be guilt. Our lives can be stressful. We can go through very stressful periods where maybe you don't feel like going shopping as much, you don't feel like doing as much exercise.

Your discipline may drop, but if you've got, I like talking about a foundation level of healthy habits. That might be, I make sure I include fruit and veg in each meal, even if the meal isn't perfect and it is a takeaway pizza, I still include some veg and some salad and maybe half a ton of beans on that.

Those are little bits of discipline, even when the meal isn't perfect and nothing can ever be perfect anyway. That's really, really important just to have a base level of health and for you to feel good. You will feel so much better if you have that salad and some beans with the pizza than if you just have the pizza on its own.

So it is actually a huge advantage to just keep that going and get used to that as a habit. 

Rena Annobil: Okay. Uh, a lot of people, they say that they are emotional eaters, you know? Mm-hmm. Okay. I'm going through a stressful time, like even myself, like I, I am broadcast in the evenings. Right. And sometimes by that point, if I've not had a, a good sleep the night before, I'm so tired.

So the, I'll take a salad with me to eat before I do my, uh, show. And what I'll eat is, you know, like in offices they put out like crisps and biscuits and like random little snacks or somebody's birthday. The dinner will be that with coffee. Yeah. Because I just wanna get through. Right. Uh, some people when they're sad or stressed, so how can that be, be managed and also, uh, like how do we kind of, uh.Tap back into those, um, instinctive cues of whether we are full or hungry. Because I feel like, you know, a lot of us actually, we, we, I know it sounds obvious, but we do miss those, those cues, don't we? Sometimes. 

Vanessa Sturman: Yeah. I think this is a really, really important discussion because there's so many advantages to eating more mindfully, and it doesn't have to mean people are very busy as well, but to feel some of those cues, we do need to slow down a bit.

And it doesn't have to be meditating over your food on the top of a hill. You know, we've all got this. No, it sounds like that when you say mindful eating. 

Rena Annobil: Exactly. 

Vanessa Sturman: You know, it does, it does, doesn't it? You know, every mouthful, we're gonna chew it a hundred times and Yeah. All of these, these things that, that we hear the, on the emotional eating side.

It can be very complex and there are people where that, you know, they are professionals in that area to understand that. Mm-hmm. But I suppose one of the areas I can come from it from, from a more practical standpoint is that yes, sometimes, especially if we're maybe a bit depressed or stressed and I have the same thing, I can really overeat if I am a lot more stressed, maybe a bit unhappy.

Yeah. I can see myself skew a bit more to that way. As, as well. Some of the things that can make it easier is, first of all, making sure you are actually eating satiating food. So some people, there might still be elements of emotional eating, but they may find that their eating as isn't as emotional as they thought.

So an example. In the evenings, people may come home and raid the cupboards, but when you look at the food they're eating, and I do that with people, you know, I say, right, let's look at all your food. Let's get you some actions that are really, really going to help you in your day-to-day life. Let's build those habits in.

Let's look at where the food really isn't working for you. For some of those people, they probably aren't eating properly during the day. So what can happen is that when they are feeling very emotional because they're also hungry, they've got no chance, like they are going straight for the Oreos, I would do the same.

By the way, if you are really, really hungry, your body is going to go for the highest calorie density foods that can and it's gonna grab those, that family bag of, of crisps. So it's putting some practical things in place. First of all, am I drinking enough water? How else could I bulk out my breakfast? And maybe, you know, sometimes you can have half your breakfast at 10 o'clock, the other half, you know, even at that four o'clock point in the afternoon or something like that if you've made a big enough breakfast, et cetera.

So it's building in some of those habits. And what some people find is that when they come to that emotional eating, they don't eat quite as much. They might go fine, I had some emotional eating, but let's look at changing what that emotional eating. Looks like, can we get in a bit more of a balanced meal first, if you really want some of that fried food, have some of that on your plate and have some of the healthier foods as well.

Mm-hmm. But don't get to that position if you can avoid it of just raiding the cupboards for the crisps and biscuits. Build a few habits in before so that you're not completely restricting yourself and you feel better as 

well. 

Rena Annobil: Hmm. I wanna come on to busting some diet myths. Now. Let's do it. So there's a lot of misinformation out there about food, nutrition, and, and healthy habits, so-called healthy habits.

What are some of the biggest diet myths that you have come across recently? 

Vanessa Sturman: Ooh. So I think one of the biggest diet myths that I think is so damaging is about having, having to be careful around fruit. We need people to eat more fruit. So fruit has sugar, but it comes packaged in a wonderful bulk of fiber, nutrients, vitamins, minerals, water.

We are not eating enough fruit, so only about a third of adults even get their five pieces of fruit and veggie day and we need at least five a day. Mm. Okay. When we eat more fruit, we know that it can keep us a bit more full. You know, it's satiating. It's actually quite low calorie density. That means there's not tons of calories in the given volume.

So you can bulk things out with fruit and it will help you stay fuller for longer. We know that fruit is associated with a lower risk of things like type two diabetes, and I know sometimes for people that's one of the things that's maybe in their head, oh, I've gotta be careful of the sugar because you know, it might push me towards things like type two diabetes can actually help lower your risk of that.

Fruit is also one of the first steps. If people are saying to me, okay, I really dunno where to start, my advice would be just start building in more fruit and veg. So if you are having a. Butter on toast for breakfast or something like that. Have a bit of peanut butter on toast and put a banana or some fruit on top.

That is one of the easiest changes people can make. But it's such a damaging myth because fruit can be very cost effective, especially the, the frozen stuff, easy to put in your bag. Something like a banana or an apple. But we know the health benefits are huge and we could really help people reduce risk of disease if they built in more fruit.

Rena Annobil: Mm-hmm. 

Um, that sounds like good advice. Is there a thing though, if you eat it at first thing in the morning that you're spiking your blood sugar and it's all over for the rest of the day? 'cause a lot of people do think that. 

Vanessa Sturman: Yeah. So there's this word spike, the blood sugar. Um. So when we eat, our blood sugar levels do go up.

It is very similar. So an analogy is when I exercise, my heart rate goes up. If your heart rate is constantly up, we know that that's a problem. The same with our blood sugar levels. If they are constantly elevated, that is a problem, but our blood sugar levels going up after a meal is not a problem. Now would I advise only have fruit for breakfast?

No, we can make that meal more balanced. We want to have more protein and breakfast as well. So a way I would use fruit for breakfast, for example, the toast, bit of nut butter and some fruit on top would be a really good quick thing you could do. One of my favorites 'cause it's very, very easy, is take something like oats, whether you like overnight oats or porridge.

And by the way, overnight oats do not have to be done overnight. You can just put boiling water in them and put them in the microwave. By the way, you don't have to do it overnight, but something like some oats with some plant protein powder, maybe a few chia seeds, few nuts and seeds, and a load of fruit is a brilliant balanced breakfast because you are getting, we need complex carbohydrates.

They, you know, that's our body's preferred. Fuel, you know, that it needs to Yeah. Our brain uses that. It's so, so important. Really important for keeping us full as well. Oats have things like fiber, which we know we need more of too. That is a great way, that sort of overnight oats porridge in the microwave thing of adding in a load of fruit, but having a much more balanced breakfast.

Mm-hmm. And getting a decent amount of protein in which we know can really help our focus 

levels throughout the day. 

Rena Annobil: Mm-hmm. Another thing that people keep going on about is intermittent fasting. Mm. Like a lot of people, and, and I know they're not even eating healthy, but they're like, oh, I'm doing intermittent fasting now.

You know, I'm so on it with my health. I'm like, okay. So what are your views on intermittent fasting? 

Vanessa Sturman: So there can be advantages to intermittent fasting. The reason I don't advise it is that it can pull people away, like you said, from thinking about the quality of their food to just thinking about times of eating.

Now, now. One of the biggest advantages of intermittent fasting is because it stops people eating at certain times. They lose weight because they are literally restricting their calories. We know we need to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight. Did they lose weight because of intermittent fasting? No, they lost weight 'cause they were in a calorie deficit.

One of the reasons I worry about intermittent fasting is that especially if people are prone to being a bit more obsessive about food, it could push them a bit more into disordered eating. 

Rena Annobil: Mm-hmm. 

Vanessa Sturman: Now, there are of course advantages to not eating. From the moment we wake up to the moment we go to bed, we know that eating late at night can disrupt our sleep.

That in itself can cause problems for our, you know, short-term and long-term health. It can also mean our food choices are not so great and at night we tend to eat less healthy things. We don't have to, but that's sort of where the body goes to, you know, I'll just have a little bit of that, um, you know, the crisps or the biscuits or something like that.

But if we eat in a much more, I mean, we've got satiating way, a much more balanced way. So we make sure that on our plate we've got lots of fruit and veg, we've got whole grains, we've got healthy sources of protein, we've got our healthy fats. We are not going to want to eat from. The moment we wake up to nighttime, we are going to probably naturally start shortening our eating window because we are more associated, the food we're eating is much more filling and we can start looking at the quality of our food.

I would much advise people to go that way than say, why I'm just not going to eat at certain times. And for some people, if they're not eating that satiating food, they might find intermittent fasting really, really hard. And some people have this rule, well, I can't eat yet even though I'm really hungry because I can't start until this time.

I, I 

Rena Annobil: was that person 

Vanessa Sturman: and I was, I was 

Rena Annobil: at 5:55 PM I would be shoveling in food right at six o'clock. I'm gonna stop eating at six quick, eat the ice cream now like that, which is completely stupid. Um, so now I've. Forgotten about that. Yes. And it's not about the time, but it's the, the better quality and correct portions and that kind of thing.

Um, are there any, um, kind of, uh, health advice, bits of health advice out there that you think that people should act actively ignore? 

Vanessa Sturman: Oh, um. Yes. I mean loads. There's a huge amount of influencers at the moment that just say that things like even vegetables are bad for you. Or they say, you do not need fiber.

We absolutely need fiber. So fiber, fiber 'cause it, it's such an important one. Most people are deficient in fiber. So only about 10% of people in the UK are getting the amount of fiber that they need really. Now, fiber is so important. So our good gut bacteria eats fiber. Okay? So people are always banging on about gut health.

We know that to have a healthy gut, we want to have a good amount of fiber and a variety as well. So what came out of things like the Zoey project, which was very helpful, was this idea that if we can get about 30 different plants a week, that can really help our gut health. Now, our gut health is connected to hormone production, staying full, a healthy colon, reducing inflammation, reducing the risk of lots of lifestyle diseases, making it easier to go to the toilet.

Please make sure you drink enough water, everyone. So a nice analogy for you. A log can only get down a river if the river is flowing with water. Okay? So just remember that in terms of, you know, if you're upping your fiber, please make sure you're drinking enough water. We need to eat more fiber. So it's such a dangerous piece of advice to say we do not need fiber.

And we know that the foods that are full of fiber, things like our whole grains, our beans, uh, nuts and seeds, et cetera, these foods are so brilliant for our short and long-term health. 

Can we just 

Rena Annobil: get onto protein obsession? Yes. It's, it's, it's ruining my meals. It's this, I'm telling you, Vanessa, right? Um, I have been told that I need a certain amount of protein a day and, you know, I, I do work out and stuff and I'm, I'm trying to build muscle.

The amount of protein that I have been told, I need something like 84 grams a day or something like that. I can't ever eat that amount. So I'm always left feeling, 'cause if I'm tracking it, I'm always left feeling and be like, oh, I've failed, haven't I? 'cause I haven't eaten that much protein and I'm not, I don't want to eat like 15 eggs in the morning.

I don't want to eat half a chicken. I don't actually enjoy those things. And sometimes I end up for breakfast eating more eggs than I'd want to. Like scrambled eggs. Mm-hmm. And I'm eating it, going, oh protein, I'm not actually enjoying it. And it's then it's kind of, uh, I can see how that could take over for a lot of people as, as I think it has because that's one of the main things that's now pushed to people.

That protein, protein, protein as if protein didn't exist before. What do you think about all of this? 

Vanessa Sturman: So protein is really, really important. And you know, it's something we want to think about with our nutrition along with am I getting enough fiber? Am I getting healthy fats? Am I getting clots, carbohydrates?

Do I enjoy my food? Am I getting what I need from my food? But yes, protein has taken over and there's a few misconceptions about protein. So first of all, that it's the only thing that we need. So we often hit prioritize protein. Yes, there's many things that we want to make sure on our plate. Protein is just one of them.

Something being high protein or an inverter. Comm is high protein. 'cause sometimes things are labeled high protein and they're not necessarily high protein. Something having protein in doesn't necessarily mean it's healthy, for example. So you can, you know, people are, you know, making products like cakes and adding protein powder and saying this is healthy.

Now if you want some cake and it's got extra protein in, like, fine do that. But that doesn't necessarily mean the product's healthy. The other thing is, is that we often think the only way we can get protein is through animal products. We think it's, it is got to be through meats, eggs, fish, et cetera. And we know that that's absolutely not true.

And we know that we really need to be reducing our animal products for our health, but also for the planet. And it's really good if we can get more plant protein in. We know that that's really helpful and associated with the reduced risk of things like cardiovascular disease type two diabetes, and even some cancers like colon cancer.

So we want to look at protein in a slightly different way. You know, we also want to say, right, how can I get in really healthy lean sources of protein? How can I mix up the protein that I'm 

having? So how could I maybe swap out some of the animal product protein for things like tofu, Tempe, edamame beans?

People forget how good edamame beans are. They have them often in Southeast Asian restaurants and they forget they're in the frozen section. Build them into what you are eating as well. This idea that we're all deficient in protein. You know, most people are not deficient in protein. It's very rare to have a protein deficiency in this country.

In the developed world, we're mostly deficient in fiber, but we do need to think about how can I build more lean sources of protein onto my plate as part of the entire plate. So that is things like building in. More beans, more edamame beans, more tofu, Tempe, even Satan, and reducing our animal products. So having a bit of things like the chicken, the, uh, the eggs, but building other sources of protein in with that as well.

Rena Annobil: Mm, because you're vegan, aren't you? 

Vanessa Sturman: I am personally vegan now, the reason. But 

Rena Annobil: you don't, I know, but you No, but you've not mentioned it at all up until this point in the conversation. And I know it's not something that you push onto people or you are out there like the vegan ambassador, you know, or anything like that.

Mm-hmm. But it's a choice. And how long, um, when did you make that choice? How long have you been vegan? 

Vanessa Sturman: So, I've been vegan for 10 years, and the reason I don't. Talk about it that much is that I want to encourage people to eat in an evidence-based way when it comes to nutrition. And we know that eating in a plant forward way is fantastic for our health and also the planet.

And I can talk more about the planet side because so many people are interested in saving the planet, in making sure we, you know, can actually reforest or the horrific deforestation that we've had, protect our oceans, et cetera. I am personally vegan. It's an ethical standpoint, so that means that we don't consume or use products that come from animals on a health front.

Being plant forward is fantastic and so there's ways that, you know, without having restriction for people, they can say, right, how can I build onto my plate more fruits, vegetables, whole grains, sources of plant protein, for example, and have some animal products, but have that reduction in animal products, which is gonna benefit their health and the planet.

In a way that they actually really, really enjoy. And that's what I'm trying to help people to do because we know that if people move more towards that, it could help their gut, their performance, it could help their long-term health, and it can often be cheaper. Mm-hmm. Okay. 

Rena Annobil: So, you know, you've, you've given us some good alternatives to, uh, the, um, meat protein, um, which I, which I think is great.

Mix it up a bit and, and just like, who wants to eat 15 eggs in the morning? It's just as silly. Right. Um. How much protein do people actually need though? Because I think that is an important thing to think about. And is there too, is there maths involved in this? Because I just feel like these days there's too much maths in trying to be healthy.

It's like, oh, this many plant points, have I eaten the plant points? Total all that up? Have I eaten the protein total up the grams calories? Am I in a deficit like. I did a level mass. I don't wanna forget that what I did in a level mass, 'cause it I did so rubbish. So I don't wanna live my life. Like 

calculating Yeah.

Grams of 

Vanessa Sturman: protein and stuff all the time. You are so right. It can also affect our mental health if we're tracking absolutely everything. And what often happens is people track and then binge at the weekends anyway because they've been so restricted but had no enjoyment throughout the week. So sometimes it doesn't even work.

Awareness is really, really important. So maybe having some understanding of how many grams of protein are in a particular product and then knowing that and getting on with your life. So in terms of how much protein we need, it is individualized. If you're really worried, please go and see a dietician.

But as a general, to not be deficient, we need N 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight. I would not advise anyone does that because that is just the amount we need to not be deficient and to just kind of survive. Most people need between. One gram to 1.2, maybe a bit more, um, grams per kilogram of body weight for the regular person.

If you are doing more exercise, you might need more. If you are kind of in the sports arena, you are going to need more, but it is not as much as people necessarily think. And you can add protein into each meal in a simple way. So taking each meal and making sure there is a decent source of protein can take away some of that, uh, maths in terms of, you know, in terms of that mental load of going, have I got enough protein?

Mm-hmm. Your decent protein sources. Of course, you know, we have things like our, our meat, fish, and eggs. We know that they've got a decent amount of protein. We can build those in, but we want to build in the plant sources of we as well. And it's not just that one thing on the plate that has protein. So one of the pieces of advice I have is say, take something like beans.

We know we need to eat more beans. Now they do not have as much protein as things like tofu, Tempe. Meat and fish, for example. But that doesn't mean they can't be there as part of the protein on your plate. So a really brilliant thing you can do for your health and to stay more satiated is to have that two sources of of protein on your plate.

So you can say, right, I'm gonna have beans 'cause I know they're excellent for my health. They're excellent for fiber. They'll keep me more satiated. They will provide some protein and I'll have extra to that, some tofu, Tempe, maybe a little bit of chicken. So you know, helping you reduce mixing up. The chicken and the chickpeas, for example, that's gonna give you multiple sources of protein.

Food that we know is really good for your health. Keep you more satiated, help you also build other things onto your plate. So not getting obsessed with the protein, but saying, well, have I got enough veggie on the plate? Have I got some whole grains on my plate? Have I got some healthy fats on the plate?

It's that combination that's really, really important. But also remembering with protein sources. So say we take red meat, for example, or even ultra processed red meat, we know that it can be very high in saturated fat, dietary cholesterol, and we know from the science that it can push us further towards, uh, lifestyle diseases and increase our risk of those.

So just because something's got protein in doesn't mean it's healthy and nothing generally is a pure source of protein. So protein powder fine, generally. Pretty high on just protein, but a lot of these other products, they come with so much more in them, some of which is very good, some of which might be problematic in high amounts.

Rena Annobil: Do you ever recommend that people take protein powder, protein shakes and that kind of 

thing? 

Vanessa Sturman: I think protein powder can be really, really helpful. So it's not a must. And sometimes when people start going to the gym, they still got must have protein powder. It can be really, really helpful, especially some of the protein drinks that people can have on the go.

So things like fuel for example, just because it's a more processed product or even ultra process doesn't mean it's necessarily bad for you. For some people it helps them get in the nutrients, the energy and the protein they need on the go instead of picking up a bag of chips. It can be really, really helpful.

Some protein powder in your morning oats can be fantastic. So I use at the moment a plant protein powder. I'm not selling them by the way, but it's via company called I think. Protein works. Their vegan protein, I can't even remember the name. That's how much. They're totally not advertising them. I'm not advertising them.

There we go. And it is a blend of different plant proteins. Getting a variety of plant proteins is also important to get all the amino acids you need. They're all complete proteins, but we wanna get that range of, of different plant protein sources to get the amino acids that we need. But putting a bit of that in my oats with some soya milk, the chia seeds, the fruit just helps me get a really decent amount of protein in my breakfast, which helps keep me more full.

So protein does help you stay more satiated, so it is really important and it just boosts my breakfast a little bit and it's easy, cheap. Just quick scoop. Very, very helpful for people on the go. Yeah. 

Rena Annobil: Well, I'm glad you've kind of cleared that up because you know, there is, there are certain people and, um, a lot of people aren't even qualified to give this advice, but they say, oh my God, it's so bad for you.

You must never have these things. So, um, you know, you've obviously done a lot of research into this, you know, and, and studied this kind of thing, so that is quite good that you provided some clarity over that. Do you think that the wellness industry actually benefits a little bit from people being quite confused, um, about this kind of thing?

Because the wellness in like, let's, let's not lie, the wellness industry is, is booming at the moment, right? A lot of conflicting information, which is why you are here today. So we can clear up some of that, but. There is somebody benefiting from 

Vanessa Sturman: the confusion, right? Completely. There are people really benefiting from people being highly anxious around food, highly anxious around their health, getting very much in, you know what we were talking about before, the vanity.

I've gotta have a particular body shape. I've gotta be very restrictive. There are huge amounts of products that are very, very expensive. Promising things. Like I saw one on social media and because I kept watching the ads because I was so disgusted, they kept showing me more ads. Ads, oh my God. I was like, oh my goodness, I'm gonna have to keep seeing more and more of this stuff.

And to be honest, if our phones are listening right now, we're gonna get even more of those ads. And it was for some kind of matcha powder. Now matcha can be really, really good for you, by the way. You know, it's, it's got benefits, but let's be realistic about these benefits. This is the problem with the wellness industry is overhyping benefits of certain things.

So there's this matcha product that has other things in it as well. One of the claims was, or what this advert said is, Ooh, people said, after I took this, that within two weeks I looked 10 years younger. Now, even a surgeon probably can't do that within two weeks, you'd still have recovery time. There is nothing that is going to do that.

So these overhyped. Benefits are really, really damaging. People are spending these huge amounts on things like supplements. I am pros, supplement. Um, you know, they can be helpful, but you don't need to be paying 200 pounds a month. What people also think is when they think, oh, I'm gonna get healthier, their mind often goes straight to supplements.

'cause there's someone there selling them that, and that's probably the advert that pops up on their Instagram. The moment they open it, the moment they've heard that person say, oh, I wanna lose a bit of weight. And they will be promising these quick fixes. This is another huge problem with the wellness industry, is this quick fix idea.

Now some people get, and I'm gonna put this in big inverted commas, get results from quick fixes because that quick fix might be drastically dropping your calories. Guess what? Yes, you are going to lose weight. They might be telling them to cut everything out of their diet, and so that person might think, oh, I got these results because I cut gluten out.

Now, some people, you know, might have a gluten sensitivity, they might be celiac. That's a different conversation, but for the majority of people, they don't have that. But if you cut everything out, you. Probably are gonna get results in the short term. And then your body might really, really rebound and really, really struggle.

And it can be very dangerous to be very restrictive, but the wellness industry might be able to say, oh look, you felt better 'cause you do, you did that. The diet industry will gaslight you because they will make you think that you are the problem and you didn't have the willpower or the discipline. So if you have to drastically cut your calories, you, you can't eat sugar.

You know, people going on these no sugar challenges as well, you know, that also can be very dangerous and restrictive because they're cutting so much out, it's damaging for their mental health. And you can have some refined sugar and be absolutely fine. And like I said before, it can encourage you to eat more healthily if you are not being ultra restrictive.

And it can encourage you to not do the binge at the weekend because you know you can have that piece of cake when you want, but what will happen is you drastically cut your calories. Your body probably rebounds and you end up just wanting to eat everything in sight and you think you are the problem.

You think, well I didn't have the willpower. And I hear people say this a lot, well, I just need more willpower. And they don't need more willpower, but they need to eat in a way that's actually good for their body, that's filling, that's enjoyable, that's not ultra obsessed with the number on the scale that's actually sustainable for the rest of their lives.

But these diets might make people think, right, you are the problem and you need to keep coming back to my diet plan to kind of get you back on track. And if you suddenly eat loads, well that's 'cause you are a terrible person and you had absolutely no willpower. Well this is 

Rena Annobil: what we are dealing with right now, which is, it's very, very overwhelming isn't it?

Um, you mentioned calorie counting there. Do you think that calorie counting can be a good thing because it's quite popular at the moment and you know. Weight management. Um, it, it, it is, I guess it's important for some people to, to stay on top of their weight and, and track the numbers. What, what do you think about it all?

Vanessa Sturman: I think it's complex and nuanced. So calorie awareness is a really, really good thing. In order to lose weight, we do need to be in a calorie deficit, and sometimes people just don't realize how many calories they're eating. They might be thinking, but I eat really healthily and I can't lose weight. And when that was me, 

Rena Annobil: I was, 

Vanessa Sturman: I think I 

Rena Annobil: was in some kind of denial about how many calories were in things and had a huge rude awakening.

Vanessa Sturman: Yeah. And it, and it can be really helpful to know that they're also healthy foods like nut butter. So that's things like peanut butter, almond butter, healthy foods, good for you. Please include them in your nutrition. But they are very calorie dancers. A lot of calories in a small amount of space. So you could be eating lots of so said healthy foods or making those like.

Health bars, which are just full of nuts and nut butter and chia seeds. And they are foods that are really good for you, really good for your gut. We need some of those everyday. Fantastic. But in each slice there might have been 400 calories and you think you're having a health bar. So it's understanding things like that.

It's understanding what are the foods that will help fill me up that might make me eat less calories later. So just calorie counting on its own. You are not looking at quality. So someone might say, oh, I've counted my calories and I've already had whatever it might be for that person. I dunno. 2000 calories by the time it gets to five o'clock.

Now that person is probably going to want to eat more later. So they've got to make sure that the quality of what they're eating is actually filling enough, and that's where the calorie discussion needs more nuance as well. So we can't just look at literally how many calories are in something. You've gotta make sure, is this giving me what my body needs?

Am I eating healthily? Am I enjoying myself? Am I making sure I'm satiated and not going to bed hungry? We know that's just absolutely not going to work. But at the start, for someone, it might be so helpful to say, right, I'm gonna track a few days worth of calories. You know, I, I need to have a look at this because I'm a bit confused about why things aren't working.

That can help people make some really, really good decisions. It can help when people have an awareness that, oh, actually within, say, say someone wants to make a, a creamy curry, there are some really good switches where instead of putting in. Double cream or even single cream, you could blend in some silk and tofu, add a bit more protein and lower calories, and you've still got that same lovely creamy curry, for example.

It's understanding some little things like that that people can do that are sustainable, but without having to constantly calor count. But the awareness is important. 

Rena Annobil: So in terms of maintaining a healthy weight, do you think that there does need to be, uh, some awareness of 

Vanessa Sturman: calories that you're eating then?

There does need to be an awareness, but that does not need to mean calorie counting. It doesn't have to mean tracking every day. No, I don't think tracking every day. Is particularly healthy, uh, for our mindset as well, and we've got to be able to trust ourselves. So I think that that's also another side we've got to be able to trust.

I can eat, I can build a balanced plate. So the more you are building a balanced plate, the easier it is to stay within your calories. So filling a third to a half with loads of veg, having some beans and another higher protein sauce like I've spoken about before. Having a healthy source of complex carbohydrates, whether that's brown rice, sometimes white rice as well.

Um, potatoes, sweet potatoes, Parsons, all our root vegetables, for example. Other forms of grains that we might go for. You know, the, some of the, what some people might think are more exotic grains, things like quinoa. You don't have to eat quinoa by the way. You can stick with things like um, rice and other whole grains, making sure you've built out that balance plate and have a bit of healthy fats, for example.

So things like avocado is a great example. If you have a whole avocado on toast, you are really eating quite a lot of calories. If you say, well, I'm gonna have a half to a third and I'm gonna build other things on that plate, I'm gonna roast tomatoes, I'm gonna have maybe, um, some beans, maybe a couple of eggs, maybe some tofu, whatever it is for you, and you are building out that plate in a way that's gonna be more satisfying, we know that's gonna be more satisfying than just having avocado and toast.

You would've lowered the calories as well, and, and overall it's gonna give you much more variety, be much better for your health, but it's going to make it so much easier to eat within your calories. But this is also where things come in. Like we were talking about, the hunger and fullness cues that can be difficult for people when they are in a rush, if they are so used to eating a very set amount.

So that's another thing that calories are gonna be a problem for, is that we might eat differently every day. If you have different levels of activity, sometimes when you are upping your levels of activity. You might need more food. You might need more food at certain times of the month. If you have, uh, a hormonal cycle, a menstrual cycle.

So we are not the same every day. And you may not want to eat all your calories in one day, but another day you might need more than that. So it's making sure we've got that nuance and some of this intuition around our eating. But intuitive eating needs huge caveats around it because left to someone's own devices without nutrition education, they may say intuitively, I just wanna eat donuts all day.

So it, it, it comes with a lot of nuance to say that, but if we're filling out our plate in this much more balanced way and we've got these healthy habits, it becomes easier to say when you are hungry or full. If you slow down your eating, that can help you feel those hunger and fullness signals. And that doesn't mean like we were talking about before, going and meditating over your food.

You can still do that. Even if you're having to send emails and you're being at your desk, you can still just challenge yourself to chew a bit slower, to maybe put your fork down in between. Mouthfuls will just help you feel those signals a little bit more. 

Rena Annobil: There just have to be some thought and planning into these 

meals.

And by the way, I'm feeling really hungry 'cause everything sounds really nice, but, um, but you know, it's not, there is some thought that has to go into the, like getting these things, you know, into your house in order to make them and stuff. Let's talk about convenience though, because. My, one of my toxic traits is like, oh, my life is so busy and I'm so stressed, but I have to make everything from scratch.

And then it's even more stressful and, you know, I haven't got any time for it to do all that. Um, however, are there some convenience foods that are okay for us and, and as part of a healthy lifestyle, we we should be eating? 'cause who's got all this time to make 

Vanessa Sturman: everything from scratch. Absolutely. And I, I think what's really important to remember about food is we don't have to put things into a category of good or bad.

And often that's just not how it works anyway. It's always about what we are comparing things to. So for a really good example, take ultra processed red meat in a bacon form. We know that the plant-based ultra processed bacon is a good heart healthy switch away from actual animal product bacon, right? So that's a, that's a good switch and that is a convenience food.

There are things like soups. There are fantastic convenience foods. Now, ideally go for the ones that are not packed full of things like cream, but you could get something like a convenience soup. Have half of that packet add some beans from a tin. So again, even tins of beans are, to a degree, a convenience food.

You don't have to go soaking and boiling your own beans and chickpeas and lentils. You can if you want, but that's another step you would have to take. Get some convenience soup, add some beans to that, maybe a bit of avocado on toast, maybe another extra of protein sauce on there as well. That would serve much better for lunch than going and getting a pasty.

As a comparison, really, really wonderful and healthy and you are adding other things to it. So it's this kind of hybrid approach with convenience food, even with less healthy convenience food. I'm gonna go back to our pizza example. Mm-hmm. Have half the pizza, you know, say you like a really fancy some pizza, fine, have half the pizza and add a lovely big salad, some hummus, maybe some extra grilled tofu or a bit of extra chicken or egg, or whatever it is you're having.

And you have made a much more balanced plate to go with that, but you've still had a bit of what you've wanted. It's still convenient. You haven't really had to cook anything. And it's allowing yourself to have these approaches that are sustainable and can actually go into the long term, rather than saying, I'm gonna try and cook everything from scratch, which most people just can't do and don't need to do.

I think that's the other thing, you don't need to cook everything from scratch in order to be healthy. 

Rena Annobil: You know, there is this argument of, to eat healthy food is quite expensive. Mm. And I, I, I feel sorry for, for moms actually, I mean, I'm a mom myself, so I feel sorry for myself as well, but, uh, in terms of like, you know, you've got mouth to feed, you don't have that much time.

You've got people with different likes and dislikes and, um, you've gotta produce meals all the time. And so the things that are cost effective and, um, convenient are things chicken dippers, for example. Mm-hmm. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. These kind of things. And you know, your kids will eat it. It's not the greatest thing.

Right. It probably affordable and quick. What, what, where do you kind of sit on that argument? Like, um, healthy income be expensive, should, should supermarkets and even the government do more to make it 

Vanessa Sturman: accessible for people? Absolutely. The government does need to do more. There's so many factors when it comes to health, and this is really, really important and this is why people end up feeling quite.

Shamed and thinking, oh, I don't have the willpower, I don't have the discipline, or whatever it is. The number of factors that go into our health or obesity include things like socioeconomic status, income, genetics, education. Some people know how to take very cheap ingredients because they were brought up that way.

So cheap ingredients like lentils and tins of tomatoes and herbs and spices, and turn that into a really healthy lentil curry. They know how to bulk cook. They were bought up in those sorts of households. I was bought up in more in that sort of household and and learn even more from doing that, so I had a really good springboard.

Other people don't, and I think it can make people feel really, really awful because they don't have all of those backings. Some people have. Lots of kids. Some people are struggling being a carer and a mother, for example. Yet everyone's got different constraints on them. And so if you ever hear on social media, we all have the same 24 hours in the day, or if I can do it, you can please ignore that advice.

You know, you want to hear from someone who's actually very busy or someone who is sensitive to the different demands on people's lives. So healthy eating can be really, really cheap. Can be, I mean, you can make anything very expensive depending on where you go shopping. Uh, and we do have a study from, uh, the University of Oxford that showed that often the most sustainable and healthy foods are the cheapest.

So this is things like our whole grains, our frozen fruit and veg, our fruit and veg. That in season, if you know, you're constantly heading towards strawberries in winter, yes your bill is going to be more expensive. Our legumes, so that's things like our lentils, our chickpeas, our beans, our edamame beans, those sorts of things can be very, very cost effective in their quite kind of raw or, you know, form where we need to cook them.

That's where we can keep things very, very cheap, especially if we bulk cook, we can also save on energy, et cetera. If you don't have the ability to do that, if you don't know how to do that, then we can have some problems there because some of the convenience food can be a lot more expensive. What I suggest if you are using convenience food, like I said before, is what else can I add to that?

So one of the best things we can do with our health on an easy starting point and to take away that guilt or perfection is say, what can I add and bulk out with? So say the kids do only want the chicken dippers, for example. First of all, I, I would advise sometimes mix them up with the plant-based ones as well.

You know, the kids probably won't know the difference. I'm not sure of the price comparison between the two right now, so I'd have to come back to you on that. But do some switches if you want. Add in lots of peas and sweet corn, for example, if that's what they, they'll have. If you can add mashed potato if the kids like mashed potato.

Add in some butter beans to that, blend it with some butter beans so they're actually getting more legumes into their diet and more fiber in as well. Little things like that could really, really help, and you still have that convenience food on the plate, but it's more about how can we bulk things out and do things in that hybrid way that takes away some of the, the pressure that we might have, as, you know, whether that's as mothers or having busy jobs.

Mm-hmm. 

Rena Annobil: Well, I, there's so much I wanna talk to you about, but we're running outta time, so I just wanna ask you that if there is, um, one nutritional mindset shift that somebody could take away from this, that you would give somebody like at least one thing, what would that be? 

Vanessa Sturman: I'll give you two things. My two top things are adding and adapting.

So when people say, I just don't know where to start, you do not have to change everything you are doing in order to be healthy. And actually, we know from behavioral science that the easiest way to make things fit is if they already fit into your life. If we stack habits on top of what you are already doing.

So you know, very simply what I was saying, if you're usually having toast and butter for breakfast or for a snack, have that little bit of nut butter and add some fruit. If normally in your curries you are adding lots of cream or something like that. Add instead, blend up some of that silk and tofu to, you know, that's gonna really, really help your, potentially help your long-term health.

Add extra beans into that as well. So just adapt that. If you're having a chicken curry, maybe do half and half chicken and chickpeas for example. You're just adapting that curry and you're blending in the silk and tofu, it's probably going to taste pretty much exactly the same, but you've adapted that.

Add more vegetables onto the plate so you've got a meal that you already know how to cook with stuff that's already in your home and you've just added and adapted. To that plate. That's all. That's something you can do from today and tomorrow. 'cause I think most people have aton of chickpeas in their cupboard, don't they?

Most people have. Or if you don't, please go and get some on the way home from work. Some frozen fruit. And they're 

Rena Annobil: nice and cheap. These things as well, aren't they? They're 

Vanessa Sturman: nice and cheap and they also, they don't go off. So make your life easier. Stock up when you're at the supermarket or from the, you know, tins of tomatoes, tins of beans, frozen fruit.

Get that stuff in your house so you can quickly add it to things as well. But adding and adapting, you can start doing from today and tomorrow. 

Rena Annobil: And this is called the lifestyle prescription. So I wanna ask you, Vanessa, um, do you have a, uh, lifestyle prescription for a healthy and happy life? Ooh, 

Vanessa Sturman: well, I would still build in the adding and adapting.

Mm-hmm. I would build in, I would say, enjoyment. And again, we know, you know, that's, that's, that's my opinion, but it's also backed by the science. When people actually enjoy what they're eating and it fits in with their social life, their cultural life, their cultural cuisine, et cetera, it is much more likely to stick.

And enjoyment is so important. Food is absolutely incredible. So taking what you are already doing, making it healthier, that is what you know, we absolutely need to do that. But make sure you enjoy it. So picking the things you really love. What are the cuisines you love? What are the dishes you love? If it just means adding a few extra things to it and you're still having what you love.

That is so, so important. Same with your social life. Make sure you are going and seeing the people you actually like, not the people who stress you out. You know, I know it's not as easy as I, as as just saying, I'm just gonna change my friendship group. But make sure you are actually enjoying yourself and that goes for your health habits, your food, your social life.

Do the exercise you actually enjoy. So when you're asked the question, what is the most effective exercise, the top thing is the one you'll actually do, right? And generally the one you'll do is the one you enjoy. If you enjoy a workout video that's about dance, I had a client who said she loved rock music and dance.

So we found her videos on YouTube that were workouts to rock music doing dance in her living room. Fine. There might be some other exercise that potentially someone could argue is much more effective, but it's the most effective exercise for her 'cause it was the one she was actually gonna do and she enjoyed it.

So that's what I would say. Enjoyment is the top thing. 

Rena Annobil: I like that. I like that lifestyle prescription and, and the thing about food as well, that there are so many. Stories and traditions and everything woven into food, right? Yeah. Into a cultural cuisine. So I think that's really important to keep in mind as well.

Um, thank you so much for coming on to the Livestock prescription, coming to the studio. It's been lovely chatting to you. And of course, we're gonna include the links to, uh, you know, uh, to, to you. And, um, if people wanna get some coaching from you or if they want to kind of, um, find out more about you, we'll include the links in the description as well.

Thank you for joining us on this episode of The Lifestyle Prescription. I hope that you have taken away something from this episode. Please do share it with people. Please do the usual, like and subscribe. Um, I think that, you know, you will agree that we do need clarity in the, in the world of wellbeing and health and nutrition.

And so I hope that we have provided that for you today. So, uh, join me on the next one until then.